amnesic
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 66
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Post by amnesic on Jun 29, 2005 12:22:14 GMT -5
as much as i despise tom cruise i find myself agreeing with him on some points. i agree that children are overmedicated and am concerned with treating people with medications that we have very little understanding of the mechanism by which they are alleged to have an effect or their long-term usage.it is disheartening when psychiatrists (and many psychologists too) won't even entertain the idea that psychoactive medication can have undesirable side-effects that are worse than the primary symptoms or that they can be addictive. i also find the inability by psychiatrists to openly critique the drug research goes completely against the scientific method. if a drug study does not use double blind control methods then it doesn't tell us anything about the efficacy of a drug.
but tom cruise can say what he wants because he isn't going to be in breach of any laws or ethics for saying it. a psychologist or a psychiatrise cannot easily make those statements as the APA say that such individuals are placing those with mental health problems in a dangerous position: they may discontinue their medication without advisement from their doctor. if scientists wish to promote these drugs then there seems to be no problem, if you want to question their efficacy then you are being immoral. at some point the APA is going to have to realise that the public need a genuine debate with real access to this data instead of stifling it.
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Post by Metella on Jun 29, 2005 14:31:17 GMT -5
snort - that is never gunna happen; not with millions of dollars being shoveled out by drug companies to "advertise" their wares to doctors and ignorant civilians alike. This drug business is DISGUSTING ! I have seen how research is done, & while I still have respect for labs etc I have no faith in ANY PUBLISHED REPORT .... PERIOD. So much data is fudged, that in order for me to swallow ANY claim, it must be done by different labs.
Cruise - well, that poor, loney boy has be borged by the scientology group. Love the name, but they are fruitcakes. Cruise is on one.
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Post by Patcat on Jun 29, 2005 15:20:27 GMT -5
Drugs are over and badly used, but it's also important to note they have made life better for many people. And recent psychiatric drugs have fewer and less dangerous side effects. Lithium, for example, has some very nasty side effects, including causing damage to the heart. Prozac has side effects, but not in the category of Lithium.
It's a two sided coin, of course. Drug companies should be more truthful, but these medications have saved lives.
My only (so far, thank you) personal contact with mental illness is when my father had a severe depression in the late 1960s. He was given electroshock therapy. Now, I hate the idea of electroshock therapy. Would fight like hell not to have it myself. But I'm convinced it saved my father's life and kept him from suicide. And it made his life, and those around him, better.
Patcat
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Post by NicoleMarie on Jul 1, 2005 16:23:12 GMT -5
I've always disliked Tom Cruise for reasons I could never put my finger on. Now I have a concrete reason: He is an arrogant, ignorant moron!!! It's on thing to believe, it's another to have proof. He is entitled to his "religious" beliefs but they do not entitle him to dicate his beliefs to others. I believe each case of mental illness is treated on a case-by-case basis. Not every treatment will work for every person. Tom Cruise and the Scientologists need to shut the hell up! Go Brooke Shields and Matt Laurer!!! (NicoleMarie, who apologizes for her irritation with the subject)
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Post by NicoleMarie on Jul 1, 2005 16:33:39 GMT -5
I think CI handles mental illness and psychology pretty well. They usally don't make fun of or try to politicize their storylines, don't try to manipulate you one way or the other with a storyline. My only critisism is I think sometimes they play on broad stereotypes too much which really irritates or alienates people (Nicole Wallace, Semi-Detached, Want) or push a bit too far without thinking it through or being in enough in depth (Death Roe, No Exit). These seem to be the shows where there is the biggest reactions and are also the biggest split in loving or hating these shows, almost half and half.
I hope this made sense...
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Post by LOCIfan on Jul 3, 2005 10:17:02 GMT -5
The treatment of mental illness and psychology is one of the things that makes LOCI an outstanding show for me.
With the exception of this season's DEATH ROE, I've always found that the writers steer very clear of stereotypes and actually mine the nuances of the various pathologies they explore.
NicoleMarie,
I disagree with your take on this. I find that LOCI rarely relies on stereotypes. Of course, certain aspects of stereotypes are accurate, which is how they became stereotypes in the first place. But, looking beyond the broad strokes, there are not only great nuances, but individual quirks written into the characters. I'll leave Nicole Wallace out of this discussion, because she's got a lot of other baggage attached to her. But Nelda from Semi-Detached was a very well-drawn portrait of someone suffering from borderline personality disorder. Her histrionic, smothering, and manipulative attachment to both her ex-husband and Goren was extremely nuanced and psychologically accurate for the pathology being portrayed. Tagman in Want was also far from stereotypical. He was a psychotic sociopath, yes, but he was far from your stereotypical monster-serial-killer. Tagman was written with an underlying pathos to his character that made his crimes all the more haunting.
As for not being in depth enough, I agree that DEATH ROE was sloppy and underwritten. But, that's just 1 episode out of four seasons. Not a bad track record.
And while it may be true that LOCI didn't take the easy road with NO EXIT, the fact that the morality of the situation portrayed wasn't spoonfed to the viewer is what I believe contributes to the the debate over the episode.
In fact, I'd argue that it is precisely because Crim Intent DOESN'T rely on stereotypes and DOESN'T take the worn-out path with respect to the pathologies and illnesses it portrays that contributes to the fact that viewers have such differing opinions about the episodes.
The writers are clearly getting top-notch consulting advice. Dr. Park Dietz is among the most respected forensic psychiatrists in the world and, according to the interview with Ms. SenGupta, he vets every episode.
I only wish more shows on television would approach psychology and mental illness with the depth and insight that LOCI does.
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Post by Patcat on Jul 3, 2005 20:23:24 GMT -5
Thank you, LOCIFan, for expressing my thoughts about LOCI's treatment of mental illness
I appreciate the fact episodes have frequently demonstrated how the mentally ill are more often the victims of crime than perpetrators. And how seemingly normal people can be struggling with truly horrorific problems.
Patcat
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amnesic
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 66
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Post by amnesic on Jul 4, 2005 5:22:10 GMT -5
the "very english" nicole annoyed me greatly at first as i thought that it was just another stereotyped english character. then i thought that perhaps the writers had written her to be deliberately stereotyped. nicole is australian and living in the US., perhaps she is acting in the way that she thinks those around her expect her to. perhaps if she acted against the stereotype then those around her would be less likely to accept her con. it wasn't until goren and eames started saying "butter your parsnips" and "scones" to each other that i realised this (these being 2 sayings i have never heard in the UK and i went to a very posh university filled with very posh english students!). in a way, i find goren and eames' reaction to her a bit like a knowing wink to the audience. everyone is in on the joke that is nicole except for her
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Post by LOCIfan on Jul 4, 2005 10:38:45 GMT -5
well, some aspects of nicole's character may be a wink to the audience, but she's far too lethal to simply be a joke. i'm a rare breed for CI fans -- someone who's essentially on nicole wallace. i neither love nor hate her. concerning her mental illness, well we know she suffered sexual abuse at the hands of her father as a child. however, that doesn't explain her psychotic tendencies. if i were to diagnose her, i'd say she suffers from antisocial personality disorder.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Jul 9, 2005 11:42:51 GMT -5
LOCIfan, I want to emphasize that just those certain shows I mentioned because you seem to think I think *all* of CI is stereotypical. Not so. I had a long post prepared for why I think those certain CI shows were stereotypical but I figure we're not going to see eye to eye anyway so why bother? And I'm not in the mood anyway so I will edit down to a few thoughts.
In Semi-Detached, Nelda was stereotypical to me in how she was portrayed and handled. The same for Tagaman in Want. Goren's sympathetic reactions to them made me feel manipulated, as if I was being forced to feel sorry for them. He treated these two as victims and not as the murders that they were. I never seen that done like that on CI in that manner before and it left me feeling manipulated and I resent that. Also these shows spent a lot of time tripping through Goren's head and not really focusing on the *intent* in Crimnal Intent. That is why I did not care for those particular shows. I know you will not agree with me but, I just wanted to let you know where I was coming from.
As for "No Exit", I think I made my thoughts clear in my posts about it on the episode thread. I did feel spoonfed with that show and again, I felt manipulated. I felt someone was trying force a crass message on me: "Suicide is for cowards and it's ok to make fun of them". I will give it the vote for being my most disliked CI show, *ever*. The irony is, I liked Death Roe.
And UGH, I despise Nicole. She's overrated as a villian. There was a lovely post about her on another board. (Not the Uni board!) It critisizes the entire Nicole saga. I'm thinking of posting it here. Nah, I think will leave the Nicole thing alone until another Nicole show comes on. I think Nicole is just a psychopath, deliberate in her actions and reasoning. I believe she knows exactly what she's doing and why. It would, however, be nice to know why she does what she does because, thus far, out of 3 shows, I'm still clueless. hehe
CI is not my favorite show, it is only *one* of my favorites. It's a favorite because of the many different interpretations people have of each show. CI is not black and white though I know some people see the world that way.
Sorry if I sound a bit bitter. I'm in quite a lousy mood today.
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Post by LOCIfan on Jul 10, 2005 9:46:52 GMT -5
NicoleMarie, I didn't think you felt all of the mental illnesses portrayed on LOCI are stereotypical. You were clear about that in your earlier post. I was simply disagreeing with your take on those portrayals you did find stereotypical. Agree to disagree.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Jul 11, 2005 10:46:34 GMT -5
Agree to disagree?! You're no fun!!! hehehe
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