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Post by deathroe on Feb 27, 2009 19:35:53 GMT -5
I agree very much about Eames not being some darn Bobby worshipper. I would hate for her to be any less than she now is. I feel that the writers have been cutting it a little close of late (all that "not against my partner" stuff). And I speak as a shipper at heart.
If this makes any sense: I think that the leads are both very fine actors. I trust them to ship it up a bit--I think that they get bored, and they do. But the current writers are another matter. The writing is a big reason I worry about any potential romance between Eames and Goren. Not that it used to be that way. I've never heard anybody complain about that scene in "F.P.S."--but about what came after it?! And much as I love Erbe, I start worrying in Season 5, at right about the court scene in "Wee Small Hours." It's lovely, but it's way too much.
Also, I think any shippy moment post-"Smile" can be read as a concession to people who disliked the end of "Smile," and as such, I dislike it. That is, I enjoy those moments, but noticing the post-"Smile"-ness, I feel a little bit icky about it.
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Post by tjara on Feb 28, 2009 9:07:40 GMT -5
That's exactly the point, I think. They can do it just fine, just hand them something that can be a little shippy, like the "promise me a marguarita" from Third Horseman or the "I looked good in it, too" from Yesterday. I think these scenes are very shippy, and once I've filled in more blanks (Seasons 2-5) I will definitely find more such moments. The nice things about these scenes is that the feelings are shown, they aren't center stage of the discussion. I think it gets really tough once it's scripted very shippy, because a) it looses the subtlety and b) it tends to take center stage, especially if it comes up again... and again... and again...
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Post by maherjunkie on Feb 28, 2009 11:27:33 GMT -5
I agree very much about Eames not being some darn Bobby worshipper. I would hate for her to be any less than she now is. I feel that the writers have been cutting it a little close of late (all that "not against my partner" stuff). And I speak as a shipper at heart. She's hardly a worshipper! After "Frame" I wanna say "You think all those wounds are self-inflicted now?"
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Post by sandy on Feb 28, 2009 11:42:10 GMT -5
I agree very much about Eames not being some darn Bobby worshipper. I would hate for her to be any less than she now is. I feel that the writers have been cutting it a little close of late (all that "not against my partner" stuff). And I speak as a shipper at heart. She's hardly a worshipper! After "Frame" I wanna say "You think all those wounds are self-inflicted now?" Ooooh, yeah. That was harsh. It would be so nice to see them play nice this coming season.
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Post by DonnaJo on Feb 28, 2009 11:46:33 GMT -5
Speaking of "self-inflicted wounds." I know this is a bit off topic, but I believe that Eames is also responsible for Goren's predicament in "Untethered." After all, she was the one who encouraged Bobby to speak to Frank downstairs at One PP. He was adamant about ignoring Frank. If he had ignored Frank, perhaps the whole Tates' undercover operation and subsequent suspension would never had happened. Which, for me, makes her comment "all of your wounds are self-inflicted" a tad bit hypocritical. I mean, doesn't she feel any responsibility?
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Post by sandy on Feb 28, 2009 12:23:33 GMT -5
Speaking of "self-inflicted wounds." I know this is a bit off topic, but I believe that Eames is also responsible for Goren's predicament in "Untethered." After all, she was the one who encouraged Bobby to speak to Frank downstairs at One PP. He was adamant about ignoring Frank. If he had ignored Frank, perhaps the whole Tates' undercover operation and subsequent suspension would never had happened. Which, for me, makes her comment "all of your wounds are self-inflicted" a tad bit hypocritical. I mean, doesn't she feel any responsibility? Oh, I agree with you, DJ. The only way I can justify Eames "self-inflicted" thing, is to say that she was so frightened by the experience of almost shooting (& most likely killing) her partner, that she lashed out at him in anger. But why isn't she angry with the chief of D's and Ross??? As an aside, I love EB as Danny Ross, but he's a sonofaB***h. In Purgatory, he keeps Bobby undercover, even with the thought Goren very possibly is being set up, and then accuses Bobby of murdering his own brother in Frame! Do you think you could go back to work for someone who thought you capable of murder???
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Post by Patcat on Feb 28, 2009 12:28:01 GMT -5
I take anything Eames said to Goren in PURGATORY in light of her anger and terror. Some of Bobby's wounds are self-inflicted. He should have taken family leave during the events of THE WAR AT HOME--tell Ross that "My Mom is sick. I can't work. I'm sorry." He should've accepted Eame' offers of help during his mother's illness. And when he was undercover, he should've told Eames what was going on. But I find it consistent with Bobby' s character that he didn't do these things. He's used to compartmentalizing his life and doesn't know what to do when the carefully segragated elements began violently crashing into each other. He does turn to Eames during the events of UNTETHERED, but that results in damage to her and her reputation, and I think that contributes greatly to his decision to not tell her about his undercover work.
I understand Eames' anger and fear. She's nearly killed her partner and friend. She thinks he may have been working for a drug dealer and gone over to the dark side. Then she learns he's lied to her. I think she may feel a bit responsible for what's happened, and that guilt increases her anger.
Whatever has and is going on between the two of them seems to be settled by the time of FRAME. Alex never seems to accept the idea that Bobby is in anyway involved in the murders. She's working constantly to clear him, and, after his initial anger at his discovery she's investigating him, Bobby accepts that she's trying to help him.
The more I think about and watch FRAME, the more I think Bobby has told Alex about the DNA test results. She doesn't seemed surprised or shocked by them, and most of her anger about them seems directed at Ross for his heavyhanded revelation that he knows about them.
Patcat
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Post by maherjunkie on Feb 28, 2009 12:29:14 GMT -5
I don't think he really thought it, but just had to clear him.
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Post by Patcat on Feb 28, 2009 12:30:13 GMT -5
Oh, and I'm not sure Ross believes Bobby killed his brother. Ross is looking at the evidence, which suggests it. Ross is perfectly willing to keep Eames on the investigation, something he shouldn't do since she is Bobby's partner and friend.
Patcat
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Post by sandy on Feb 28, 2009 13:13:45 GMT -5
Oh, I kinda think Ross did believe Goren capable of murder, that little showdown in Ross' office with the eyebrow thing, to me, Ross was not on Bobby's side at that point. If he was, why didn't he just say to his detective that it was a routine investigation to clear him so the brass didn't have cows. Which is how Eames saw it. And really, how stupid is it to even think a smart detective such as Goren would murder his own brother, then go back to the scene of the crime the next day while the local cops are all over it, and announce who he was so they can become suspicious. Oh, and then call Major Case to tell them of a murder that would otherwise have been chalked up to "junkie falling out of window while high as a kite".
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Post by maherjunkie on Feb 28, 2009 13:30:46 GMT -5
You have a point. I'm just tired of this "Bobby should have told Eames" crap. She was in vice, she knows the drill.
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leanonme
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 166
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Post by leanonme on Feb 28, 2009 15:35:52 GMT -5
I can understand where Eames was coming from. From as far back as "The Faithful", she has broken rules for Bobby. Remember "give me two days"?
There is the drill about not telling anyone, but come on, they had been working together for a long time. She was right, she had bent rules for him. He wouldn't even return her phone calls.
I think the bottom line was that she knew what was true, and was calling him on it- the job matters more than anything to him. If you are shipper, that is huge, if you aren't, it tells you something about where your partner's loyalties lie. To her, he was basically saying that he couldn't(or wouldn't) trust her, and he wasn't going to risk his job. Pretty big slap in the face, especially if she feels she had made the concessions that she had ( the ones she she states in "Smile").
I can't remember where I read it, but once I read a cop's perspective on CI, and he said that he would love to have a partner like Bobby Goren, if he could stand the teasing he would get from everyone else on the force. That always stood out to me, because it speaks to one of the issues that Eames would deal with being Bobby's partner, one we don't often see or think about. That kind of thing would also explain a bit of Alex's comment in this episode.
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leanonme
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 166
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Post by leanonme on Feb 28, 2009 15:50:14 GMT -5
I agree with Patcat, that Bobby could have decided not to tell her to save her.
From Eames perspective, his wounds are all self inflicted. She feel s she has been available to him, and he has chosen not to go to her. Telling him to talk to his brother is one thing, but if he chose to go to Tates, that was his choice.
She seems to come from a decent family and she seems pretty healthy. To her, it seems that Bobby should get over his messed up family, and grow up. In some ways, Bobby is to her, what Frank has been to Bobby. She gives, and wants to help, and he rejects and won't do the things that will help him.
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Post by Patcat on Feb 28, 2009 16:39:31 GMT -5
I agree that Bobby wants to save his job--at this point it's all he has--but I think he also feels he hurt Eames by bringing into the plan to go to Tates, and he doesn't want to hurt her any more.
What's good about the writing and acting of this story line is that both Eames and Goren have legitimate sides on these issues, and Ms. Erbe and Mr. D'Onofrio play the accordingly.
Patcat
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Post by tjara on Feb 28, 2009 17:03:01 GMT -5
PatcatWonderful post about Bobby - farther up at 12:28pm - not gonna quote it now, but it was really lovely... especially about his "compartments" clashing... What an interesting thought!! I cannot really comment on either Frame (hey, it'll premiere April Fools Day - no kidding, so just give me some time), or Purgatory. I've seen Purgatory, but it was the first ep I saw, so it's really, really cloudy...
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