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Post by addicted2vdosgoren on Oct 19, 2007 15:47:41 GMT -5
This may be another episode where the crime, however clumsily, mirrors the Eames-Goren partnership. Leslie's line about "I carried that idiot's water for seven years"--NOTE, seven--also seems to mirror the partnership. Interestingly, in the interview clip on the USA site where Warren Leight talks about Eames, Leight says: "For 6 years, she's stood by Goren and in many ways carried his water. A guy like that without Eames at his side would not function well in the bureaucracy of the NYPD." So, why the use of the exact same phrase as Leslie's line? I'm afraid to speculate lol
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Post by DonnaJo on Oct 19, 2007 16:03:57 GMT -5
I was also wondering, as Techguy mentioned, about the shooting order. If "Smile" was shot before "Amends," then the Goren/Eames exchange is less twilight zonish. It's still not true to character, but not as much. If I didn't know that I've seen every single second that's ever happened between these two characters, I would swear that I missed something from another episode. Or, did something happen between Goren & Eames off screen that we'll be privy to later? SaraIvy, your entire post was spot on. In the same vein as you described, that scene in the allergy guy's home, in front of his collection of books. Goren's comment "I guess his books keep him company." Yeah, yeah...we know that Goren's a lonely guy whose only friends are books. I thought Bobby looked sad when he realized that he had been played by Leslie - especially when Stacey mentioned how Leslie wore red to get what she wanted. It was good to see him out & about on sort of a date, shows he's not only about sitting on his kitchen floor. Count me also as HATING the last few lines. Eames wasn't kidding, wasn't being snarky or cute. She was totally deadpan serious when she told Bobby that it was too late, that her career was already tainted by him. Honestly, I didn't like that Eames at all. It was a B***hy thing to say to your partner of six years who just lost his Mother.
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Post by deathroe on Oct 19, 2007 16:24:11 GMT -5
OOOOOH--well spotted, addicted! I'm sure that's what it was. You made my evening. (To clarify: I surely don't think that the parallel means that Eames thinks Goren's an "idiot." I just think that it's something the writers do. I love all the literary parallelism-that is why I watch these shows. If in the first episodes of TBJ I hear the phrase "Every cliche is true" I WILL hope to remember Ben Stone saying it in Episode 7 of Mothership Season 1. The franchise shows delight my inner geek )
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Post by deathroe on Oct 19, 2007 16:30:06 GMT -5
Holy Hannah--I really AM the only person who didn't think the last lines were overkill. Eeeee. I just--I'm not saying I trust the writers altogether. I just don't think it's fair to interpret a character with so much consistency through those lines.
That said, I am nothing if not pro Eames. I have been worrying about this all day when I wasn't working! *s*
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Post by outerbankschick on Oct 19, 2007 16:31:58 GMT -5
That's because it's Nicole's signature scent.
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Post by nancyt on Oct 19, 2007 16:50:03 GMT -5
Great joke, Outerbankschick!
Speaking of -- How many Nicole episodes are there? I've only seen one, but it was obvious in that one that there had been at least one previous episode.
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Post by ragincajun on Oct 19, 2007 16:54:35 GMT -5
4 nicole episodes.
Anti Theses Person of Interest Great Barrier Grow
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Post by addicted2vdosgoren on Oct 19, 2007 16:55:03 GMT -5
SaraIvy, your entire post was spot on. In the same vein as you described, that scene in the allergy guy's home, in front of his collection of books. Goren's comment "I guess his books keep him company." Yeah, yeah...we know that Goren's a lonely guy whose only friends are books. Yeah, that was not subtle by any means. Though I did chuckle at the 'Dewey decimal system' observation. I feel the same. The more I dwell on it, the angrier I get. I'm just beyond sick of people treating Bobby like crap. Leslie's line about Bobby taking Eames down with him was just like Ross' warning to Eames in Endgame ("Don't let him take you down with him.") Maybe Eames has begun to believe all the warnings. Bobby gets no respect and it's really wearing on me (as much as it likely wears on him.) If I were Bobby, I'd tell everybody to p*ss off and go somewhere I'd be appreciated. SarahIvy, I love your 'WTF' emoticon - very cute.
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Post by deathroe on Oct 19, 2007 17:01:33 GMT -5
She was in about three too many episodes. Or maybe four. I really think that the "beating up on Goren" which has happened of late (and it really has happened) is more the writers' fault than it is Eames' fault per se. Wait, did I really just type that? Nevermind
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Post by gorensdoppelganger on Oct 19, 2007 17:07:20 GMT -5
I know, I can't believe I'm still worked up about the last scene between Goren and Eames. How about Eames taking ownership of her decisions? Eames has free will, she could have requested a new partner at any time. Two years ago, while being questioned by the Defendant's lawyer, Eames, stated that SHE withdrew the letter. That SHE found him to be an honorable person, and a good detective. Like another poster brought up, Goren is an acquired taste but Eames made the choice to have Goren as her partner. Once again though and I know some of us keep saying it, having Goren as her partner would NOT have effected her becoming Captain. If she passed the exam, with her track record of closing cases (thanks in part to Goren), there would be no issue. Geez, I agree, this Goren bashing is really getting old. Though I would never do it, I just feel like going up to the writer's and punching them on their arms and saying, "Stop Picking On Goren".
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Post by nancyt on Oct 19, 2007 17:18:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, ragincajun; I'll be on the lookout for those.
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Post by musicwench on Oct 19, 2007 17:27:16 GMT -5
Even having slept on it and thought about in what little spare time I had today, that last line by Eames just seemed to be contrived and out of place. Since when did she have ambitions to be Captain? Since when did she even take the job to be noticed? Hasn't it been established that she didn't take the job to be noticed? At least that's what I've always believed since the very first season and the Jones episode. Now we find she really was ambitious and did want to be noticed and get ahead? Wtf?
It's annoying and if the partnership is going through any more of what it went through last season, I might not make it to the end. Sorry, but seeing Eames make that comment in such an off handed way was just not right. I can't imagine she would be that cruel to Goren. I don't care how upset she was during Amends. Considering Goren was right all along, you'd think she would realize that and she wouldn't hold it against him.
I didn't like the whole Leslie thing because she reminded me too much of Nelda. I knew she was up to something the minute she gave Goren her card. The actress was good at what she did though because if she was supposed to be creepy/nuts she pulled it off marvelously. I'm also sick of the Goren and crazy women theme. Once was fine but Nelda part 2 I could have lived without.
A couple of things I don't get: Why did Goren feel compelled to tell the woman about his mother? Why did he refer to Eames as "Mrs. Eames" when trying to talk himself into that woman's apartment?
Apologies if these have been answered already but I haven't really read any other posts. I was just so anxious to post this all day and haven't had time.
*sigh* Color me disappointed and very disenchanted with what they're doing to Eames. The whole episode she seemed a little...distant from Goren. It's like those horrible episodes from last year where they were awkward with each other. I'd have thought by the end with the amount of trust she placed in him by allowing him to see Brady alone, things would have been better between them.
I am very unhappy at the direction this is moving in and have no desire to see this partnership disintegrate over the season. Even if they bring it back together again by the end, it's 'been there, done that' last season so let's try something new.
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Post by gorenfan26 on Oct 19, 2007 17:53:11 GMT -5
Personally I thought that this was a great episode. I don't believe that Eames' comment was meant to be taken the way that so many are taking it. Goren is an acquired taste, as they both have said. If she didn't want to be his partner anymore, she had her chance to say so last season and didn't. I don't see her changing her mind now. Also as someone stated (sorry, I don't remember who) these episodes are being aired out of the order they were shot in, so this could've been meant to build drama for "Amends" which was originally supposed to be the next episode. Just a thought. I'm still new to this show, so I don't know all the history behind all the characters, but I am starting to put all the pieces together.
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Post by musicwench on Oct 19, 2007 18:05:56 GMT -5
Actually the order they were filmed - I believe from what I've read - Depths, Amends and then Smile so Smile follows Amends. Depth was moved to third from first.
I hope the positive thinkers are right about Eames' statement because the way I took it was horrible. I took it mean she's telling him it's too late to worry about it cause my career is already tainted. I'd be most happy to be proven wrong.
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Post by DonnaJo on Oct 19, 2007 18:27:25 GMT -5
musicwench, I took the comment exactly as it was stated, and unfortunately Eames said that it was too late for her career, that yes, Goren's rep has tainted her. Her expression was resigned, like she was stating fact.
That isn't the Eames we have been exposed to for six seasons. I hope the writers realize that Eames is loved by the fans, so it would be destructive to the show & it's fan base for the writers to paint her as a class A B***h.
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