I respect your opinions. I really hope the writers resolve this and have something better for Eames to say next time. I agree, if she IS being this way, and tney ARE splitting them up, it would be a real disservice to people who have kept with the show. It would be a real failure of *reading the character* for them to do that--so I hope they don't.
[eta: and I'll probably never buy dollar store mouthwash again, but that's another story ...]
Last Edit: Oct 19, 2007 18:38:28 GMT -5 by deathroe
"I didn't take this job to get noticed"--the sadly fictional Detective Alex Eames
In all honesty, the true-full answer to that question is "Its too late."
Because it is! She's not going to sugarcoat it. Goren got the truth.
IMO all she meant was its too late for her to redeem herself. Nothing more than that.
Also Eames could care less what other people think of her.
So: It is too late and she doesn't care.
"I'm not asking you to love me. I'm not asking you to agree with me. And I'm certainly not asking you to touch me. I'm simply asking you to accept me, to leave me alone and let me live the only life I have." - Unmentionable
I think at their age, maybe they are just content with their jobs, and where their life is. I never felt either detective wanting to climb the ladder, like Det Bishop, She was on a mission
I got a problem with Toby's sisters death. ( Sorry, I don't remember her name) Originally they thought that Toby died of Alcohol poisoning. Then they decided it was from the fraudulent "Snowmint" Mouthwash, laced with the antifreeze chemical. How did Toby's little sister get the tainted mouthwash? Wouldn't the police department have to find the mouthwash in his home, and then test it against what the autopsy report had shown? I just feel that was a screw up in the writing of the show, or the Police Department was very negligent in their collecting of the evidence for the crime. She should never have come in contact with that mouthwash after they discovered it was what had killed her brother
“It’s like you got yesterday, today and tomorrow, all in the same room. There’s no telling, what can happen”.... Billy, "I’m Not There"
IMO the whole scene with Toby's sister was GRATUITOUS, as was the whole scene where Neslie (Nestle?) moved her office. They did not belong in the otherwise classic feel of the show, and actually, the scene with Toby's sister upset me a lot more than the ending with Eames. Everything I dislike about SVU.
On a lighter note, perhaps this is the song that the episode was really about?
Last Edit: Oct 19, 2007 23:38:42 GMT -5 by deathroe
"I didn't take this job to get noticed"--the sadly fictional Detective Alex Eames
I've only seen the last few minutes as posted on YouTube, but what on earth is going on? That last speech by Eames said with a smirk or a wry and resigned grin would have been completely in character and still conveyed the truth in what she was saying. Said deadpan it was mean and sounded like she blamed him, which is not the Eames we've come to know.
Great to see Amy Acker again. But the rest of that final exchange was really odd. Would Goren really be that upset at the idea of never making senior partner? (and I may misunderstand the ranks of the NYPD, but if he was senior partner wouldn't that mean that Eames would have had to have moved on and he would be paired with a junior partner?) He's never, ever shown any interest in rank. Unless he was reacting to the idea, again, that others believe bad things about him but the way it played out made it seem he was disappointed at the idea of never being senior partner. And, along with others on the board, I always had the impression that Eames was happy being a detective in the MCS. She's never expressed any ambition or taken any opportunities to push herself forward, and in fact has rejected jobs which would get her 'noticed'. So it was weird to think she would be so worried about the idea of never making Captain.
Both characters seemed so tired and worn out in this section. I wish I'd seen the rest of the episode.
I've never been a shipper, not because I don't think they'd be good together, but because television writers can only leave a couple happy for three episodes at the most and then they subject them to horrible stresses and make them act out of character to add "drama" and split them up, and fundamentally change the characters for ever. (Learnt my lesson with the Xfiles and other shows). Now, it seems, they can't even leave a good working relationship stable. The writers really need to learn some other ways to add 'dramatic' elements.
Forgive me if this has been stated elsewhere, either here or in another topic but....
In the interview with Kate and Vincent, Kate mentions the 'third G/E episode' they shot. At first I thought, that must be the next ep we see. But then I read that they shot Depths, Amends, Smile so she is probably referring to our ending in Smile......
Joshua Maloni: Right. And Kathryn, looking at the season preview, I mean Bobby and Alex are both going through some pretty heavy circumstances. How is that going to affect them individually this season and how do you think that’s going to affect (their) relationship?
Kathryn Erbe: You know, I don't know. We just did - we just finished hour of the Goren and Eames’ third episode for the season. We’ve just finished shooting it, and the final line really led me to believe (that Goren) in as great shape as I assumed.
I - my personal feeling was that they were - they had been through, you know, all this stuff and have come to another place -- a place of much more - I mean this - and this is probably still true, no matter what - the way this third episode ends -- that they have a lot more respect for each other, they rely on each other a lot more. They’re much more of a team and they know each other a hell of a lot better because their (wounds) are more apparent.
And so I don't know. I have no idea what - and I don't think Vincent does either, because they really…
Kathryn Erbe: …don't tell us where we’re headed, and we have no idea what’s going to happen.
I'm glad she feels more posiitive about it. I read somewhere, either here or another board, that someone said that when Goren asks her if she worries about what Leslie said, she says, "I used too". She could have said yes, if it were true but she didn't. I think she just means it's too late because she has no desire to choose being a captain over ending their partnership.
Like many, I believe that the last scene was gratuitous, not credible in its premise and completely out of sync with the remainder of the episode.
Frankly, I don't see the controversy in Eames' statement. I concur with those who interpreted her statement as simply meaning, "For better or for worse, I decided to stay, and I'm in it for the long haul." I think it was a good choice for KE to play that line straight. I saw no snark, no bitterness, no sarcasm--only honesty.
I am also dismayed by how the writers are playing up the "whack job" angle with Goren. He's eccentric and unorthodox, but he's not a whack job. No matter how brilliant he may be, and no matter how many cases he and Eames may clear, MCS wouldn't allow a "whack job" to remain on the squad.
By the same token, I'm also frustrated with those who say or imply that Eames doesn't pull her own weight on the team and that but for Goren's brilliance, she wouldn't have a career in MCS. Eames made it to MCS without Goren, and in fact, is the Senior Partner. No matter how well Eames might keep Goren grounded, and no matter her gender or connections, MCS wouldn't allow a detective who wasn't capable of solving cases to remain on the squad.
"I had the right to remain silent...but I didn't have the ability." - comedian Ron White
the way this third episode ends -- that they have a lot more respect for each other, they rely on each other a lot more. They’re much more of a team, and they know each other a hell of a lot better because their (wounds) are more apparent.
Thank you for your excellent research, eames47. I was trying to remember this excerpt from that joint press interview. Your transcription is greatly appreciated.
If Erbe IS talking about the ending of Smile (and we can't be sure) then I honestly don't see it. There were so many ways that the writer's could have written that final exchange, so many ways to give it a positive spin. What I saw was in no way positive, and Goren's expression at Eames' remark was anything but reassured or comforted.
You know, they do film several versions of scenes. How many times do we see promo clips with scenes & dialog that don't make it to the actual episode? Maybe there were versions of this scene that were less ambiguous.
Erbe: "and they know each other a hell of a lot better because their (wounds) are more apparent"[/b]
Was Eames revealing her "wounds" with that comment? Has her pride been wounded all of these years because she's had to "carry Goren's water?" And by making these feelings apparent, is that supposed to strengthen them as a team?
I....don't...know..... Is this the patience that we, the fans, are supposed to have per VDO?
Can anyone try to explain what a "whack job" is to someone who's not from America (or another English speaking country)? I know it's not a compliment, but I can't really figure what exactly this means.