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Post by nwchimom on Nov 1, 2007 22:59:35 GMT -5
Interesting looks exchanged between Rodgers and Ross. Loved when Goren asked why Major Case was called...it's like the writers are reading this board.
More to say later, but for now I found it difficult to get into this episode knowing there wouldn't be a resolution regarding Eames' comment at the end of Smile.
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Post by janetcatbird on Nov 1, 2007 23:51:33 GMT -5
Man, grad school stinks--this was the first episode I've seen since the premiere, so I have no way of knowing what's a tie to early shows and what's just this one. (What was the "Smile" remark?) And I'm in a Maritime Studies program! So I definitely have my thoughts on this, but I'm pooped so I'll save my rant for tomorrow.
I wondered about Ross and Rodgers! I got that they were playing an almost too deliberate who us we're cool, we're cool, act non-chalant. And Eames and Goren seemed to give each other their own You see that? looks. He ain't Lenny, but I can totally see Rodgers and Ross sparring and sparking with each other.
History Buff Ross! And a great old-timey, twisty mystery with complex motivations! If it weren't for the stupid opening and the steamy sex music video I'd say we were back to the old days.
And I don't know why I noticed this, but I liked Eames in the dress/skirt. Maybe Erbe's getting to be a little more feminine? I also thought I saw an almost un-Eames like smile as the other officers gave her a hand up the ladder when bringing rich guy on board for the aria. Gallant gentlemen in a lady-like moment for Eames, maybe the cast and crew had giggled about a slip and slide earlier. Whatever, I thought it was neat.
Oy, bed. Sorry I've missed so much, love y'all, mean it!
--Catbird
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Post by darmok on Nov 1, 2007 23:54:05 GMT -5
Let's hope they're reading because I took the line about being nothing without parents or a child as a hint of things to come. I like the show being more character driven, but PLEASE don't suddenly give Goren a child.
As for the episode, it was there. I liked the interaction with the FBI guy. He was trying to show off, and Goren showed him. According to the cast breakdown, he's a possible recurring character.
Although it was Stableresque, I liked it when Goren threw Simon off the boat. Eames didn't though.
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Post by deathroe on Nov 2, 2007 1:26:55 GMT -5
I think with the way things were writing-wise in seasons 1-4 they might have handled a baby Goren with skill; no more. darmok--Stableresque="good call." I know I'd find it interesting if Eames ever confronted Goren on his methods. It seems too that if he is in for more losing-it-ness (to which it might be noted that Stabler, whose popularity mystifies me somewhat, is not immune) ... if that is the case, that Eames would be the first to notice, and it would weigh on her also. In more general terms, I'd like to reserve judgment on this episode until I've seen the first :15*, which I take it includes the music video ::shudder::, but I take it there was no resolution to "Smile." Oh, well. This seemed slow to me at first (delivery is always slow these days--have people noticed?)--but I was glad I stuck with this one. The medievalist/bookish person in me was geeking out when Goren noticed the excised pages. That was a nice little scene. And the end was neat. At least they were trying to give us classic CI, what with the complex dialogue. And I agree that the push at the end was a nice touch--just getting tired of all the Goren-induced Schadenfreude, I guess. Btw, at first glance, I took it more as that they fought than as Bobby G went all Meloni on him, but I'll have to watch again. (Any thoughts as to whether part of one's frustration with Eames and Bobby G right now is that they are as emotionally remote to us as they are to each other? Just a theory I'm toying with. Not working on backing it up, as yet ...) ** *I thought I'd force myself to take a nap and watch the 1 AM EST showing and accordingly slept through some of it. I find that I will watch it at both times, given a chance, so I was trying to avoid that!
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Post by SarahIvy on Nov 2, 2007 2:20:14 GMT -5
Very first initial thoughts without reviewing (or being entirely sober )... I quite liked this one. Unlike the other two G/E outings so far this season, this one actually kept my interest all the way through to the finish. I had pegged the rich guy (the doofus hubby from the horse episode of Season 3!) as being integral early on, but his motives weren't clear until very late in the game. I enjoyed that a lot, it's been awhile since they surprised me with something creative as a twist. Also, as a library lady, anything involving old books and historical shit just pleases me to no end. Eames in a skirt! Also, there is generally speaking a lot more boobage this season Really enjoyed them being out on the beach and on boats. The change of scenery was a breath of fresh air. Hellooooo....Rogers and Ross, what exactly is going on there, hmmmm? Did Goren *really* toss the rich fellow off the boat? I thought it was more of a "oh here, try and grab the walkie talkie again...oops!" type thing, purposely holding it out so the guy would fling himself off. Anyway, there was nothing rage-aholic and overly testosterone fueled about that made me think it was Stablerific. I just enjoyed it. I really had a bad taste in my mouth over the last two G/E episodes, but I can honestly say this one just made me happy because while there were bits that annoyed, it was overall an entirely pleasant outing all the way through. More thoughts later when I've re-watched and haven't had quite so much wine. Ahem.
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Post by Techguy on Nov 2, 2007 3:45:27 GMT -5
These are my initial thoughts, a bit rushed since I had a late night call-in to work.
My reaction is the opposite of SarahIvy's--if I wasn't on an adrenaline rush from resolving a work related problem this episode would have put me to sleep. The first 2 G/E episodes of the season held my interest throughout and I enjoyed them both with the exception of the final G/E exchange in "Smile." In contrast, I found "Depths" to be a real snoozer and a huge disappointment. I was underwhelmed.
Part of my malaise I attribute to the lack of coherence, the lack of segue from what transpired at the end of "Smile" to what takes place in "Depths." I felt Mr. D'Onofrio and Ms. Erbe sleepwalked throughout this episode, which is surprising if this was the first episode shot for the season and everyone was, or should have been, well-rested. Maybe Mr. D'Onofrio took on more than he bargained for working on 2 films simultaneously this summer. I'm interested in seeing his performances in those films and contrasting them to what he brought to the table in "Depths" which looked to me like the leftovers of what he had in the tank after the movies. From my perspective, Captain Ross and ME Rodgers were the most animated and interesting characters in this episode; Eric Bogosian and Leslie Hendrix are the only actors I felt gave 100% to this effort. What a surprise, and what a shame.
Another problem I encountered was recognizing Frederick Weller, the wank husband Dale Mullen from "Ill-Bred." I just rolled my eyes, yawned, and tried to stay awake until the not-so-surprising conclusion. The idea of buried treasure and deep sea diving must have sounded interesting and looked good on paper, but unfortunately, it sank to the bottom of the pile of Season 7 episodes when it was put on film. "Depths" is not one of CI's finest hours; it's not even one of the better episodes of Season 7 so far. Bummer.
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Post by deathroe on Nov 2, 2007 4:07:37 GMT -5
A few thoughts that occur on reading techguy's post:
(1) Maybe if we looked at this as a set with Rocket Man (which is about astronauts and references deep sea diving) there might be some crossover? That's just a hunch of mine; also, I found both episodes to be equally slow.
(2) I thought the diving theme was cute, but like the astronaut stuff, maybe not so integrated with the crimesolving action. Everything is more spelled out than it used to be--there are clear themes, but they are not as subtle nor as integrated with the action as they are in the older episodes.
(3) Nobody has commented on this recently, maybe out of politeness, but the lead actors are both older. Their delivery seems slower, as does the pace. They are not the same age bracket as they used to be. I don't think we can say it's because they're not involved--all that press made them sound very involved. I just think they are at a different point. I love them and enjoy their acting anyway ...
Just fwiw. I agree that the result was slow, although I did enjoy the episode. I wonder if the creative pressure of trying to live up to the older episodes might not be difficult for them all at times. I am not a creative writer or an actor, but I can imagine that it would be.
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Post by DonnaJo on Nov 2, 2007 5:11:22 GMT -5
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who found this episode a little dull. There were times during it that I was thinking they should move on...less dialog please...... And did anyone else find it disturbing that there was no explanation of why Goren was walking around with a week's worth of facial hair? I mean, it didn't make sense since he's supposedly been back on the job for a few cases & has been clean shaven (except for the first scene of Amends). However, I did think he looked great, all stubbly & tan, especially wearing the casual clothes. Ross & Rogers, no surprise since we knew they were setting up a love interest for him based on Eric's prior interviews. Although I was expecting the box of donuts brought to the office to materializes, but it didn't. Last (for now), I thought Goren's unusual enthusiasm about "Ill Bred's" wife expecting a baby was a tongue in cheek moment about D'Onofrio's own personal new daddy situation. Off to work, more later.
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Post by girlinblack on Nov 2, 2007 9:51:59 GMT -5
Call me second grade... it's okay, but I really enjoyed the episode last night. It was one of my favorites. I even liked it more than the season opener. I thought that the case was interesting. It was nice to see them doing something different. It seems like they are always in the office. I liked seeing them in new locations. I also really liked the shots at the library. I thought that those were a nice touch.
I thought Vincent actually looked more attractive than usual. I never thought that I'd say that I liked a guy with facial hair, but it looked good on him in this episode.
Kate looked stunning. Seriously, she looked beautiful. I loved that she got to wear the dress. Her make-up and hair looked extra nice. She smiled like a zillion times.
The entire thing was refreshing, and so much better than last year's crap. Honestly, I didn't even notice the music or the Ross/Rodgers thing. I guess that I was too busy being thankful that G & E were getting along. Of course, I loved the last scene with Alex and Bobby. I was laughing so hard when he pushed the guy, and of course, when Alex stood up for him - although, it sort of contradicted last week. I don't want anymore angst for a while. Please let them stay friendly.
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Post by musicwench on Nov 2, 2007 10:05:43 GMT -5
I can say I did enjoy this episode. It was fun and I saw Goren smile more than once and it was genuine. No weirdness between Goren and Eames. Of course because this was filmed out of sequence, it kind of was odd since I'm still waiting for follow-up on that infamous comment. Still I enjoyed the angst between partners respite. Liked the overall tone and loved seeing Eames in a skirt again. LOL Funny how when she's dressed more professionally, Goren was wearing regular clothes. LOL So she only dresses like that when she's undercover? My husband noticed lots more cleavage. LOL People seem to find something happening between Ross and Rodgers. I didn't see it, but then I'm so focused on Goren and Eames on the first viewing that I often miss other things like that. Will look for it tonight when I watch it again with my hubby - who fell asleep (no reflection on the show, he just goes to sleep earlier than I do as a general rule of thumb) - so he can see the ending. We usually just watch the whole thing because he loves me and doesn't mind indulging my obsession. Loved Ross' history lesson. LOL Every time I see him I just like Ross more and more. Bogosian has done a great job developing this character. He reminds me of a more repressed version of Goren - but that's for a whole other thread. Goren's facial hair. I hate it. It didn't bother me that no one mentioned it because I know it's going and I'm glad. Sorry, I hate facial hair on men - except for Tom Selleck, who looks better with than without. This airing shows out of production sequence is annoying but if I know it's happening, it helps to explain those little inconsistencies. Glad the ending had Eames standing up for Goren by telling Ross that little white lie about how Harper 'slipped and fell' instead of saying Goren tossed Harper's sorry behind into the water. Kind of made up for Smile's ending but until I see the next episode and how they are with each other, I will be stressing out over it. As to the crime, it wasn't the best but it was interesting enough to keep me wondering. When Goren and Eames went to question Harper, I pretty much suspected he was the one. The actor just looks like a weasel - or rather, he plays one well, I should say. It didn't spoil my enjoyment of watching them figure it out, however. Dana was a piece of work. At first I thought she was the one behind it all but by the time they were questioning her and she kept batting her eyelashes at Goren and tried to get Eames to identify with her as a blonde was just annoying. I suppose that was the point, though. I thought the focus on Goren while Stipe was explaining how he felt about his ex-wife Dana was interesting. Haven't worked out what the significance of that might be. My immediate thought was the parallel between Stipe and his distance from Dana for the past year and trying to reconnect and Goren and his distance from Eames in the past year and trying to reconnect. I'm always looking for parallels, it seems. But when they focus on Goren's expression and reaction instead of the person speaking, it makes me think - 'hey look!' this is important to Goren. LOL It seems this season the arias are going to be personal? Amends was personal for Eames and Smile and now Depths turned out to be personal attacks on Goren. The whole speech from Harper about a person's life not being worth anything if they have no parents or children was kind of stupid, IMO. Another device to stab our poor Bobby in the heart? Not sure but it seemed that way to me. Just like in Smile with the whole contrived Leslie's final rant. I'm all for exploring the personal but the endings where you tie in Goren's insecurities need to be worked out better, I think. If you can't fit it in nicely in the episode, don't bother. Strict procedurals are fine from time to time. I don't expect a nugget of personal insights every time. Oh and I'm surprised I haven't seen more people gagging over the music-video intro. LOL I was actually happy to see it, myself. Like I said, I rather liked them last season for the most part. I'm sure I'll have more to say after watching it again.
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Post by deathroe on Nov 2, 2007 11:10:31 GMT -5
tried to get Eames to identify with her as a blonde was just annoying.
Yes, and I loved the steady look Eames gave her when she said that, too, as though Eames thought Dana were from another planet. Very nice.
Speaking of blond, I am hoping that Rodgers goes back to red. I realize that this makes me shallow ...
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Post by Patcat on Nov 2, 2007 11:13:06 GMT -5
I also liked it. I did have problems, as Techguy did, with the lack of followup to SMILES and its ambivalent ending. There was also a sense of incompleteness about some scenes, as if they were edited for time.
But overall I found this a solid procedural. Frederick Weller was fine, although I thought him more convincing as the not the brightest light bulb in the package Dale in ILL BRED. I enjoyed seeing Micheal Cerversis, who's one of the most gifted musical theater actors around, as the bedazzled Tommy. The sequence in the archives where Goren and Eames engage in good, solid research was exceptionally well directed and edited, and I enjoyed seeing why these two are such a good team.
I certainly don't think Harper's comments about family were meant as a personal attack on Bobby. Harper knew nothing about Bobby. The remarks resonate for us because we know Bobby's history. Ironic, isn't it, that Harper's real concern seems to be money and not family.
My take was that Harper did slip and fall (kudos to Mr. Weller for taking the plunge) after trying to grab Goren's phone. Goren did not push him in.
I also loved the interrogation scene with the blonde (I can't remember names today) where she made her feeble efforts to play Goren and Eames off each other and to flirt with Goren.
I suspect this may be an episode I may not admire as much when I see it again. But right now, I'm conent with it.
Patcat
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Post by Patcat on Nov 2, 2007 11:14:39 GMT -5
Oh, and I didn't see anything romantic between Ross and Rodgers. (Why are so many people trying to fix up Ross and/or Rodgers?) I thought he felt awkward about invading her domain.
Patcat
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Post by ragincajun on Nov 2, 2007 12:39:37 GMT -5
What can I say that hasn't already been said.
Well, for one, I wanted to slap that coin guy, The one that Goren was trying to sell the coin to. When he said between you and me she was real hot, when talking about the blonde girl. And Goren says how hot, Then the guy says" Kinda older, "28"!, Dam How old was he, looked 40 to me, If 28 is old I am ancient like that coin. Man must be a pediphile.
Diane, I think that was the blonde's name was laying it on thick with Goren and Eames, likes to play the damsel in distress, and have men come to her rescue, Bet if it wasn't a meter Maid, she wouldn't have gotten the ticket.
Did anyone notice how much Goren loved looking up the history of the ship? He seemed to enjoy himself.
Also I wonder if the thing about the pregnancy being a Boy, hmmm, maybe the D'Onofrios are having a boy?, well thats a 50-50 chance there.
Also I was right about not being Frank on the beach, lol, just had to say that.
Hope they don't start with the music videos again at the begining.
Also I don't think Goren pushed him, he fell reaching for the walkie talkie. And they need to stop these lines that stab at Gorens heart. Nothing without parents and kids. Geez.
I don't know about Ross and Rodgers, seemed a little tension there, territorial, or sexual. Time will tell.
But, Goren with scruff all through the episode, hmmm hot,hot, hot. But over different days, how could he maintain the same exact lenght. My husband shaves everyday no mater what so, I don't understand that, maybe someone can explain it to me.
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vdofan1
Silver Shield Investigator
Made ya look....
Posts: 178
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Post by vdofan1 on Nov 2, 2007 13:35:26 GMT -5
While I liked this episode, I think whoever made the call not to open the season with it made a top notch decision. AMENDS to me was a far stronger episode. Even SMILE for that matter. I just keep thinking back to Goren's line, "why Major Case?" After the terrorist angle was nixed, why didn't it get kicked back to which ever precinct Coney Island is in? I know, I know... then we'd have no episode. The research geek in me loved Goren in the library and I thought the all the actors did a great job with their characters - even the characters I didn't like (Dana for one). I missed the part where Goren "pushed" Harper in the water. What a time to sneeze!!!! I was kind of confused by Eames remark to Ross, but now I think I've got it, thanks. In prior seasons info, attitudes, and remarks were eeked out in dribbles and drabs and not re-addressed until seasons later. The anticipation of getting the answer eventually was much more satisfying than knowing I was going to get the answer next week. Even though we're getting more character driven stories - I don't want to be spoon fed the information weekly - as is done on 99.99% of other shows. I'm just as curious as the next fanatic CI fan but it's still something I'd like to see evolve or presented over the course of the season - which for me has always been one of the hallmarks for the show.
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