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Post by DonnaJo on Nov 18, 2007 14:09:43 GMT -5
But my DVR (yup, I skipped it in favor of the competition and watched it while folding laundry this afternoon) missed the last 5 minutes, presumably b/c of ads for some movie I'm never going to see . Was there a post script? The last I saw was the actual aria/arrests. Did I miss anything after the final commercial break? No, after the arrest in the SALON, it was a more commercials & a preview of that movie "Hitman". Oh, they also showed the preview of next weeks Logan ep, but you can catch that on the USA site. Lovesong, why do you think that anyone here would tell you not to tune in if you have criticisms? God, I know I like hearing the critical comments especially. I may not agree with all of them, but that's what's so interesting - hashing it out. ;D One thing I especially loved in this episode was the smooth teamwork of Goren & Eames after T.J. kicked his stool over at the book signing. Like a choreographed dance, they silently position themselves. Eames places herself, hand on weapon, by the crowd to discourage interference. She leaves Goren to confront him, ready to back him if necessary. It's really a beautiful thing to watch & is aspect of CI that has been tested but stays constant, their partnership.
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Post by outerbankschick on Nov 18, 2007 15:08:00 GMT -5
Donnajo, I enjoyed that bookstore scene, too. They were both at the ready and as always, the big guy is ready to grab the idiot if he gets stupid, with Eames always there to back him. They make such a good team.
It reminded me of that scene in Faith, where they went to confront one of the suspects and his father stalked out of the kitchen, yelling at the kid to get up. Bobby and Alex look at each other and one of them (I think it's Bobby) taps their chest. They have all these signals that only they understand, and even with just a glance of their eyes, communicate to the other and get in agreement with what they're about to do. It is like a dance. And a really, really well-executed one, at that!
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Post by Patcat on Nov 18, 2007 15:16:30 GMT -5
I haven't been able to post because of Sherlock Holmes commitments this weekend. Just from my perspective, you've all been very civil.
I thought it a solid episode, with a return to Bobby demonstrating the sort of actions that we loved in Season two. The difference is, for me, at least, acts that I saw as part of his interrogation technique and brilliance in that season are now tinged with worries about his mental and emotional state. While I think his anger at Schill (and what a great name for a character who's shilling his own past and trying to cling to it) is justified, I believe Eames' concern for Bobby's reaction to Schill was justified. His bending of Schill's hand is right on the border of Bobby going somewhere very dark.
I didn't find the reference to Gage as too much. Actually, I found it comforting in a way. To me, it indicated Bobby and Alex have at least discussed the Gages.
Peter Coyote was an interesting casting choice and performed well. Oh, gosh, what was that movie he and Mr. D'Onofrio were in--RANDOM HEARTS? At any rate, Mr. Coyote also played a fraud in that film, one that I bet Mr. D'Onofrio's character wished he could've called out.
I also like the actor who played T.J. As I recall, he played the loyal friend in THE UNBLINKING EYE. He was quite good here.
I've only seen this episode once, but I must say that I like it, apparently more than some on this board. Perhaps I'll feel differently if I see it again, but I liked it and think it as good as some of Season Two.
Patcat
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Post by nwchimom on Nov 18, 2007 15:53:57 GMT -5
Lovesong, why do you think that anyone here would tell you not to tune in if you have criticisms? God, I know I like hearing the critical comments especially. I may not agree with all of them, but that's what's so interesting - hashing it out. ;D Probably because it has been said in this very thread, DonnaJo. But I agree...I don't want to hear only cheerleading comments. Let other boards wave their pom pons all they want; I enjoy deconstructing the episodes, peeling away the layers, giving respect where it is due, and pointing out flaws when it's warranted. I do have another question about the episode, but I need to watch it a second time before I ask. (It was my daughter's birthday yesterday so I've been too busy for a second viewing...argh!)
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Post by diablodeblanco on Nov 18, 2007 19:08:58 GMT -5
GORENSDOPPLEGANGER:
I can only speak for myself here, but sometimes it is a matter of singling out a certain comment or opinion from a post when the quote button is hit. It allows focus on the specific area of the post that is being discussed or explored. I hope you don not view this post as an attack or put down, it is not meant to be that. I as much as anyone on this board looooove to go back and forth with other posters who have a different take on LOCI. Sometimes those posters can change my mind....make me see it from another view point. Other times, not. That's what is fun about this board. Lots of opionions, none completely right, none completely wrong. Merely another point of view. I hope you stay and continue posting, I enjoy reading what you post. Sometimes I agree, sometimes not. In the end it comes down to everyone having a say and that say is appreciated.
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Post by nancyt on Nov 19, 2007 18:50:36 GMT -5
Lovesong: Thank you so much for the ray of hope! I'd been trying to think of a show where the writing went downhill and then recuperated, and I couldn't. Glad to know that "Six Feet Under" did it. Can anyone else think of a similar situation?
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Ladyheather
Detective
An acquired taste.....
Posts: 441
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Post by Ladyheather on Nov 19, 2007 19:23:39 GMT -5
I too love to read others posts before I chime in with what I think. Sometimes I will read their post and realize what I didn't get. I love to hear different thoughts on these episodes.
This one was ok for me. Liked it but the writing could have been better in spots. Goren wasn't depressed, thank goodness! He and Eames seem to work well together this time.
Did anyone think that her reaction during the Schill interrogation (where he hurt his hand) was put on, or was she upset with Bobby? Did she think that he was too rough?? I know she talks to him about his mentor and wonders if he is transfering his feelings for him to Schill. I wasn't sure.
The opening confused me too. I had to watch it twice to understand why the kid was running from the appartment.
Ok, another question. Did he kill her before or after the meeting at the restaurant? When she calls Schill back, was the killer there?? Or did he come back to the restaurant afterwards?? Please help me with the time line...thanks so much.
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Post by DonnaJo on Nov 19, 2007 21:02:10 GMT -5
It WAS confusing, wasn't it?
From how I saw it, the flashback between T.J. & Schill (when he gave T.J. the cocaine & the gun) occurred after they got back from the restaurant. Kira had already been attacked by the thugs who wanted the pot. T.J. went to Kira's to confront her about the Times review & shot her after she taunted him.
And I definitely think that Eames was upset that Goren's manhandling of Schill. It was no act, she was visibly angry.
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mimi
Detective
Posts: 231
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Post by mimi on Nov 20, 2007 12:40:25 GMT -5
Since there was nothing else to focus on than Goren and Eames reaction to each other and to the suspects, I'll focus on that aspect.
I think Goren's use of force (not once but twice during the episode) is a sign of a shift and not a good one.
He did used some form of violence in the past , but only to turn back the table on a perp (the biggot father in A Murderer among Us is a good example). I think Goren's greatest force in previous seasons was that he could get into the perp's head by copying his/her personnality. He used this great trait to mirror a criminal's way of thinking as a "validation" for the criminal. By doing so, he forced the criminal to make a mistake and then he went for the kill in the aria by turning the mirror not as validation anymore but as a "realization" tool.
During the episode he didn't used that (in fact I don't think I've seen him used it for a long time). Goren is becoming more and more like the criminal he catches, he validates on the spot the feelings he has towards a criminal.
This was obvious in Schill's office where Goren couldn't hide his disdain for Schill and made sure he felt it...with pain. The look he gave Schill while the frightened guy was giving the information Goren suspected and wanted, was disconcerting: a hard gaze with no hint that he was trying to figure out the person in front of him.
The story didn't cut it for me. I didn't like how they presented the closeness between TJ/Kira (and by extension Schill) versus the oblivious state they were in. Kira's manuscript was another blurry thing. Schill obviously had one and fed TJ the informations to put in his new book, yet, the manuscript didn't seem to have left her office computer. Was it the same manuscript that Schill used in his own book?
I think this episode could've been better. It seemed to be missing a cohesive thread, a core to which all the other elements lead to. I believe the stories don't concentrate on the proper elements this season. "Depths" should've focused on the Quaker tengent instead of on the bimbo; this one should've focused on the trio (Kira/Schill and TJ) instead of on Goren's anger; Eames' exasperation, D-Tour way too big role and Fisher Steven's character.
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Post by Patcat on Nov 20, 2007 13:43:35 GMT -5
I believe there were at least two copies of Kira's manuscript--one, which Schill got hold of, was originally on her home computer. The other, which Goren and Eames found, was on her work computer.
I was disturbed by Goren's move to physical violence against Schill, but I believe the audience is meant to be disturbed by this. But I also believe Goren knew who Schill was very quickly. He recognized Schill was the sort of man Goren despises, and, as we've seen, Goren has difficulties dealing with this type of man. Goren isn't in his best mental state right now, and he allowed his dislike of Schill and the kind of man he was to take control.
Patcat
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Ladyheather
Detective
An acquired taste.....
Posts: 441
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Post by Ladyheather on Nov 20, 2007 13:57:26 GMT -5
When Eames found the manuscript on her work computer, it was hidden. Ok, if Schill had a copy, why did he want it so bad at the group meeting with the young writers?? So, did she have the "real" book on her work computer? He never gave her any credit, or gave her any encouragement (D Tour stated). Was that copy at work the one she was going to go and hock on her own to other publishers?? Was Schill afraid of this, since he used her work for his own books???
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Post by nwchimom on Nov 20, 2007 15:20:58 GMT -5
Kira's manuscript was another blurry thing. Schill obviously had one and fed TJ the informations to put in his new book, yet, the manuscript didn't seem to have left her office computer. Was it the same manuscript that Schill used in his own book? Schill didn't feed information to TJ from Kira's book. TJ made up his story about being in Spofford. Kira, when she read the book to write a review, knew TJ's account was false because she visited her friend D-Tour every week. She knew TJ was lying because she had experienced Spofford almost firsthand. Schill is the one who stole Kira's manuscript. She had given him a copy to critique at his salon, but he always told her it wasn't good enough yet. Meanwhile he rewrote it as his own. He stole her book because his last 5 or 6 had flopped. Now it gets a little fuzzy for me, as for others, because what was Schill's intent? Did he plan to kill her all along? Or would he just publish and when Kira claimed the book as her own would he discredit her? Was he just waiting to get all the copies of her manuscript? How would he know if he had them all?
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mimi
Detective
Posts: 231
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Post by mimi on Nov 20, 2007 15:48:05 GMT -5
Schill didn't feed information to TJ from Kira's book. TJ made up his story about being in Spofford. Kira, when she read the book to write a review, knew TJ's account was false because she visited her friend D-Tour every week. She knew TJ was lying because she had experienced Spofford almost firsthand. This doesn't make sense to me. How did TJ get this firsthand information to begin with if he didn't read Kira's manuscript? If Kira told him, she surely gave him a detailed account of D-Tour's jail experience because from Goren's reading he really nailed it down. We knew that TJ and Kira were close but not close enough to read each other's book since she only learned about TJ plagiarism after his book was published. Too many questions left unanswered!
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Post by DonnaJo on Nov 20, 2007 15:55:47 GMT -5
T.J. researched the prison from books and other sources. He assumed that you could smell raw meat from the prison because of its proximity to the meat warehouse. But in actuality, you couldn't. Only someone who had been there would know that, like D Tour & Kira.
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Post by nwchimom on Nov 20, 2007 19:27:40 GMT -5
Right, DonnaJo. As Goren said, TJ knew just enough to fake knowledge of Spofford, but to someone like Kira and D Tour, he would be spotted as a fake immediately.
I liken it to fan fiction writers looking up Rikers Island or One Police Plaza on Wikipedia. We want to get some of the details right for authenticity, but unless we experienced those places firsthand we could never pull off pretending we had been guards at Rikers or uniforms at One PP.
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