|
Post by deathroe on Dec 7, 2007 2:20:30 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this (second viewing), and I think that the whole comment that Goren makes to the committee disciplining him at the end about having taken matters right to the very end was telling. It was something that he needed to do for himself, testing himself. He seems to have resolved something.
I loved how Eames was supporting him in this episode. It was more subtle than strident. Erbe seemed to do most of it with facial expressions. Give her an Emmy, too.
|
|
|
Post by diablodeblanco on Dec 7, 2007 2:20:45 GMT -5
What was going on in the cook's cell?? I caught a glimpse of him (the cook) twisting the arm of another inmate. And why invite Bobby back to that cell?
|
|
|
Post by diablodeblanco on Dec 7, 2007 2:26:37 GMT -5
Is there anyone in Bobby's family who is not a loser? His father was a gambling womanizer. His mother had a long time affair. His brother is a crack/gambling addict and his father might have been a serial rapist/murderer. His nephew is an escaped prisoner.
|
|
|
Post by gorensdoppelganger on Dec 7, 2007 2:32:43 GMT -5
He makes friends with the other cellies to get them to come to his cell by making himself their "savior/protector" from the guards or better food. However, the price for this "kindness", which isn't real is that he rapes them. The cook was trying to do this when Bobby stopped by the cell. The other prisoner was saying he didn't want it.
|
|
|
Post by gorensdoppelganger on Dec 7, 2007 2:33:51 GMT -5
Is there anyone in Bobby's family who is not a loser? His father was a gambling womanizer. His mother had a long time affair. His brother is a crack/gambling addict and his father might have been a serial rapist/murderer. His nephew is an escaped prisoner. Hey, put under a microscope, I'm not sure how mine would look either.
|
|
|
Post by gorensdoppelganger on Dec 7, 2007 2:44:37 GMT -5
I, too, was shocked at Goren's choice of alias. But I liked that he made himself a history teacher. I think it was done not just for the audiences sake, but also for some realism. If someone was going under cover, having a background which they could remember, especially if medicated, would be important. Maybe, his father's name was William, and of course we know about Brady. I'm not sure if it was ever stated or just speculated that Bobby's father was a history teacher, but it would make sense. My impression of Frank's comment, "I was the one", I think referred to the fact that the family thought he'd be the successful one and that Bobby would be the one to get into trouble. Bobby had problems in school and with authority, Frank seemed the one to tow the line.
|
|
|
Post by gorensdoppelganger on Dec 7, 2007 3:57:30 GMT -5
Ok, after this post, I'll keep my mouth or rather hands shut:
I just looked up Trevor Morgan, the actor who plays Donny. He's good friends with Lou Taylor Pucci. I wonder if VDO met him while filming Thumbsucker?
If you look him up on IMDb, he's got a very good career for a young actor. He was extremely effective in his role on ER.
|
|
Ladyheather
Detective
An acquired taste.....
Posts: 441
|
Post by Ladyheather on Dec 7, 2007 6:39:36 GMT -5
Well, I went to bed right after I watched the episode. What a dumb thing to do. I didn't sleep for 2 hrs. just thinking about everything. I want to watch it again and read all of your posts. I haven't been about to read all of them this morning, so I don't want to parrot too much from others.
First , I hate Frank...let him jump off that ***bridge. I'll push him.
I think Bobby used Brady's name because it would be easy to reach in his head when they drugged him. He knew that would happen.
It was over way too soon. They made such a big deal about it being an extended version, but just a couple minutes! ! ! This should have been a 2 hr epi, no excuses for that.
I know we were left hanging, good tv and all that. I hated it. Real life doesn't always get resolution, maybe that is why they left it like that.
Now I will keep my mouth shut until I watch it a few more times. So much to talk about.
|
|
Ladyheather
Detective
An acquired taste.....
Posts: 441
|
Post by Ladyheather on Dec 7, 2007 6:40:33 GMT -5
Ok, one more thing. VDO needs an Emmy for this episode.
|
|
|
Post by nwchimom on Dec 7, 2007 9:06:27 GMT -5
Ladyheather, I was up thinking about this episode for a long time, too. It's crazy how much this season has been affecting me!
One of the thoughts I had was Bobby's statement to Frank. "If someone said you were about to jump off a bridge...I'd listen for the splash." Now, I understand cutting off toxic relatives. I've had to do it myself. But Bobby...he is the ultimate empathizer. The only perps he treats badly are those who take advantage of the sick/mentally ill/their parents (Gemini, Privilege), and those who remind him of his father and mentor (Person of Interest, Self-Made). He even had sympathy for Tagman, so his harsh words to Frank were a surprise. It's one thing to say I don't want to hear from you anymore; it's quite another to say if you were dying I'd be there cheering.
|
|
|
Post by deathroe on Dec 7, 2007 9:12:55 GMT -5
Was anybody else as distracted by the date stamps as I was? Oct 31 and Nov 1 was apparently when Bobby G was in the loonie bin ... :/
|
|
outsider
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 98
|
Post by outsider on Dec 7, 2007 9:23:30 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Patcat on Dec 7, 2007 9:28:59 GMT -5
I'm probably posting too much, but feel the need to get this out of my system (g).
The great problem with this episode--and I think Techguy has expressed some of this (apologies if I'm wrong)--is that it was about Goren in danger. So, much of the story is involved with getting Goren in danger, Goren being in danger, and getting Goren out of danger. And there simply wasn't enough time to do that, and provide explanations and motivations for everything and everyone. Several people have mentioned the lack of motivation on the warden's part. There's also the confusion over how Donny got out and where he went. It's also never clearly explained how Goren and Eames set up that communication system. And, while I'm glad the episode didn't dwell on the torture of Goren, I felt, like others, that we needed to see something more of Goren's rescue than Eames and Ross following an ambulance.
Frank is worthless. I believe his comment about Eames was meant to hurt Bobby as much as it could. I wouldn't be surprised if Frank abused Bobby when they were kids. Frank's terror struck me as the reaction of an abuser whose victim has turned on him.
I don't mean to be too harsh on this episode. What was there was often terrific. But this story needed two hours at least--although I have to confess I probably would've needed major help if I had to sit through two hours of the sort of tension I felt last night.
Patcat
|
|
|
Post by diablodeblanco on Dec 7, 2007 9:36:44 GMT -5
He makes friends with the other cellies to get them to come to his cell by making himself their "savior/protector" from the guards or better food. However, the price for this "kindness", which isn't real is that he rapes them. The cook was trying to do this when Bobby stopped by the cell. The other prisoner was saying he didn't want it. Sorry for being dense on this part of the episode but..... The fact that he was wearing Donny's Altoona T-shirt mean that he raped Donny? After inviting Bobby back to his cell, did he think he could strong arm Bobby into sex or was he going to offer Bobby his turn at the young man? I thought his invitation to Bobby was because he didn't want to see him get into any trouble with the guards because he was playing with his food. I wouldn't last very long in prison... With all the prison movies I've seen, I missed that completely.
|
|
|
Post by nwchimom on Dec 7, 2007 9:37:25 GMT -5
Oh, Pat, I just made a connection....Frank's comment about taking Eames to a motel possibly could be translated as, "Why don't you go tomcat around like Dad did."
|
|