Post by diablodeblanco on Jun 9, 2008 0:39:55 GMT -5
Deathroe.....I think Eames' remark about his self inflicted wounds would also be about his UO problems, his Brady twistings and probably a few others. She's been with him for years and knows all about him tripping over his ghosts from his childhood.
to regain the badge was as if it was a quest to regain himself.
and to find a father figure!
something else: the chief of D's just DUMPS the envelope's contents on the desk, doesn't pin the badge on Goren ... strikes me as a little off???
I thought the dumping of the contents was disrespectful and a sign that the Chief of Ds still doesn't like Goren. It was an act of contempt. I think the Chief would have been very happy with keeping the badge forever in the envelope. The Chief is responsible for all that goes on in his "house". Goren uncovering a pile of crap in the house was not a welcome bit of news for the Chief.
to regain the badge was as if it was a quest to regain himself.
and to find a father figure!
I think you hit the nail on the head with the father issue. His father never gave him a second thought no matter what Goren did. Now years later, the Chief of Ds has pretty much done the same thing no matter how many cases are solved. He still didn't give Goren his due. Bobby is still trying to get his father's attention in a way.
The chief of D's angle seemed overstated. I keep wondering if there isn't something else in the wind ...
This was worth the wait, I thought, all of this
Maybe the Chief of Ds was hoping Goren would get killed doing this undercover job. He certainly has no love for Goren. That way he would be rid of him. He also made a point of having Goren be the undercover man and not anyone else. Or he was hoping Goren would screw it up and then he could go from suspension to fired. He would also be aware that once Goren came back on duty the other officers would consider him persona non grada and that would make it even more uncomfortable for Goren.
Maybe the Chief of D's is corrupt, and Ross is trying to take him down?? I can hope.
(on a side note, I am reminded that the Frank Adair shenanigans also took place around Easter ...)
Maybe Frank Adair and the Chief of Ds were close buddies and the Chief is trying to give his pal Frank a little gift......Goren out of the picture. After all they didn't do much to help Deakins when he was being raked over the coals to the point he quit.
Post by diablodeblanco on Jun 9, 2008 1:43:59 GMT -5
On a side note......I thought Dean Winters was excellent. He has a presence about him. He can hold his own on camera with VDO. I also enjoyed how Winters played his character. I felt loathing for him, sympathy and found him at times to be likeable. He was a bad guy but the way he was portrayed he had a sad side to him. You could understand why he was where he was. The slights that took him to the dark side. He had no excuses for his behavior but you could see the reasons.
Oh my, this was such a good episode. I think equal to Untethered and Endgame in its ability to take us on a long, crazy drive. Great job by Erbe and VDO. Facial expressions by Eames explaining why her partner wasn't crazy and the looks at Capt. Ross asking if she was on board with the investigation, boy that was priceless.
I love Goren, but this was Eames show to shine. I was cheering her on when she rakes him for not letting her in on the undercover. I wanted to pound both Goren and Ross for that stupid mistake. What, she wouldn't keep her mouth shut ! ! ! ! Oh, my goodness. What a stupid thing to do to a partnership. I know Ross says that this came from the higher ups, but come on.
Yes, those "higher ups" wanted Goren to die. That is why they put him in that position in the first place. He is a pain in their rears and I am sure that there is corruption that we will see down the road from this episode.
I liked Dean Winters and he and VDO played off each other very well. I don't have HBO or Showtime so I am not familiar with OZ.
Eames is correct about Goren's self inflicted wounds. He is in Purgatory because of his own choices. He went undercover, on his own. Goren did the right thing to help his nephew but doing it on his own cost him. His desperation to get his "Badge" back, shows his raw emotional state. He is a man who wants his own way. He drug her into that mess at Tate. She paid a price too, and he is oblivious to that I think. That desperation stepped on his partner's heart. I have never felt any sexual tension between them, but they are "married" as partners. Now he just went from one "Purgatory" to another. She will have this in the back of her mind, forever. As women, we DON'T forget, EVER.
It is apparent that turning to Ross for Goren was a way to get back into his good graces again. Maybe for the first time. Ross has always seem Bobby as a "cowboy" too. He uses that this time, and I think he sees this man's need for some help. It was stated several times that 6 month suspension is unusual. That being said, it sounds like that the 6 month suspension was a personal favorite of the Chief of D's. Winters character did the same thing.
Bobby in the bar when the other guy comes in for his "1013 benefit". Now that I think about it, the rat in Bobby's desk probably came from one of the men at that benefit. I wondered if the Chief of D's set all of that up so that Stote would meet Bobby. Perfect way for them to start the undercover thing. Maybe the rat is a gift from the Chief also, just fueling the fires to keep Goren apart from the rest of the "boys". Could be so that he can use him again later on for another undercover.
Did anyone notice that the money Bobby pulled out of his pocket, to do the line of Coke, was already rolled up? He knew drugs were involved in all this, and was he preparing to make the same decision to do a line to not blow his cover?
Goren has to know that the police were coming when he was about to shoot that boy. He of course saw the wire "lighter". He knew that he had to drag it out until they burst though the door. Why didn't the Capt. let her in before that ? It would have been a good scene for us to see. Yet, it makes me wonder about Capt. Ross' loyalty to his own, or to himself and his career?
So I'm thinking (always dangerous) about this episode. And one of the things I like about it is the parallels set up between Stoats and his former partner and Goren and Eames. They're mirror images of each other, the major difference being that Goren and Eames, for all they've endured at the hands of the department and other cops, have never forgotten that their jobs are not to protect fellow cops or the department, but to protect the people of New York.
I liked the detective from Brooklyn who teamed up with Eames. Good characterization in a few lines from both the writers and the actor.
I think Bobby got Stoats. Stoats' great weakness was that he thought Goren was exactly like him, with the same resentments and feelings of entitlement.
And I don't think Bobby feels like he's now in another Purgatory. I think he thinks he's in Hell.
Post by diablodeblanco on Jun 9, 2008 8:12:14 GMT -5
Perhaps this is a way to drive a wedge between Goren and Eames. The orders for keeping it from her came from the top. I guess that means the Chief. Anyone who has worked as a police officer would know that friction between partners is a death knell for a partnership. This was certainly a way to add friction to an already bruised relationship. One more way to isolate Goren and possibly push him out.......take Eames from him and having him do it himself. I think I smell a conspiracy. I don't believe Ross is in on it but merely a pawn who must follow orders or face the consequences. Ross does try to do an occasional end run to help Goren or soften the situation but all in all his hands are pretty much tied by the higher ups. Goren is so hell bent on getting back in that he lost sight of the game. Goren played by the rules this time because he knew he absolutely had to. He knew there would be no second chances on this one. I don't think the mobster was the greatest danger here.....I think it is the higher ups who want Goren gone. They will try again.
I think Bobby got Stoats. Stoats' great weakness was that he thought Goren was exactly like him, with the same resentments and feelings of entitlement. Patcat
Goren handles his punishments differently. He doesn't use them to justify bad behavior. He just keeps plugging away taking his ass whuppins and still trying to do the job. Oddly, in the end Goren will be as out of the club as Stoats is.....maybe even more so.
OK, Must watch this again, but a few observations from some of the excellent thoughts already posted:
Not a fan of the Goren flashbacks in the teaser, but understand the necessity of them, to bring new viewers into the loop. It seems unrealistic that Copa wasn't given a desk assignment if he only had one year to go until he could collect retirement pay. The reason had to be more than his eyesight. He did leave his post, and his partner to be murdered, to have sex with a cop groupie.
From what I saw, Copa called Goren a Rat, not Stoates. So it could be Copa himself who planted the dead rat. Although I LOVE the idea that it was Nicole! That would be very clever of the writers, IMO.
A beautiful visual scene - Goren driving through the lights of midtown Manhattan in what looks like a vintage sports car. For a second I thought we were going to see Donny. Glad we didn't.
Anyone catch the line, "Until Goren gets back" from Eames to Ross, and his silence? The time frame is wacky, but I think that Ross' really wasn't sure that Goren would be allowed to return to MC at that point. It's afterwards that the possibility of the undercover redemption is layed out.
What I would have given to witness a session between Olivet & Goren! Even just a few minutes would have been fantastic.
BTW, who exactly shot the drug dealer & tourists in Red Hook? Testerossa or Stoates? Must watch it again.
"You know the drill, you can't drink." I took that two ways, Goren needing to drink to be undercover in a bar, but also that he's been leaning on the beer a little. Can't blame him.
How supportive is Ross. Love him. Making all of this happen to get his best Detective back. He knows this is the only way Goren can impress the Chief enough to be reinstated at MC. As much as I DESPISE the Chief, I don't believe he wants Goren dead, but he's more than willing to have him risk his life, no big deal to him. I pray that down the road he's caught doing something really dirty.
Bobby tried to save Stoates, that whole exchange in the car after they meet his old partner. Telling him that the department won't look the other way. Stoat made his choice, to be a criminal. Also very cool revisiting the Evidence Room & the cop in charge who called Eames "Lady" in "Amends."
Goren was painful to watch. Depressed, exhausted..was he on a prescription given to him by Olivet? Also scared shitless. A far cry form the "27 arrests, 27 convictions" cocky guy from years ago. It was finally a relief to see him all cleaned up & happy, back on the job. Even with Eames upset with him. Damn you. Leight, for throwing water on our pleasure with that lovely, bloody Rat! Although that would be what would happen in the NYPD "buddy boy" system.
There were plenty of SWAT guys with guns to shot Goren during the break in. Were they tipped off by Ross? Did they recognize Goren, as Eames did?
Goren should have given Eames some hint of what was going on. I understand her anger & he did need to hear that his wounds have been "self-inflicted." (I bet Olivet has been telling him that too, in session). After Ross left & they were alone, & Eames was going to leave, it would have fit perfectly for Bobby to say "Alex" to call her back instead of Eames. Come on, writers.
Maybe Goren really was trying to protect Eames. To not draw her again into his mess? I like to think that. Or, it wasn't his place to tell her, it was Ross.' If he did, then he would have gotten into trouble. She should really be angry with Ross, not Bobby.