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Post by nomoreexcuses on Apr 8, 2009 19:09:16 GMT -5
I'm so glad this thread popped up. Because maybe someone can explain to me (a newbie) the most puzzling aspect of this ep. Why didn't Bobby get a job while he was suspended? Stoat mentions Starbucks as though that was the only alternative. But someone of Goren's experience, caliber and connections certainly could have snagged a legitimate private security job (or something similar) while waiting to be reinstated. Instead, the ep implies he's been spending six months on a barstool.
nme
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Post by outerbankschick on Apr 8, 2009 19:14:46 GMT -5
I've often wondered that myself, NME.
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Post by idget on Apr 9, 2009 8:23:14 GMT -5
I always figured that Bobby thought he would never be on suspension as long as he was and that at first he didn't bother thinking he would soon be back at work. The longer it became the more depressed he got and he probably didn't have the energy or desire to seek other employment.
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Post by Patcat on Apr 9, 2009 8:23:36 GMT -5
I've wondered about that myself. Perhaps there are some regulations about a suspended officer taking a job in a field related to police work. I know that cops frequently take second jobs (even when they're not supposed to), but their superiors tend to look away. Bobby was in a situation where the Chief of Detectives would probably have fired him in a heartbeat if he did anything wrong.
Having said that--I think he probably did some work of some kind. Possibly for Lewis, or even as a researcher. I don't think he sat on a barstool all that time.
But this is one of those holes in the past two seasons Dump on Bobby Arc.
Patcat
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Post by Moonbeam on Apr 9, 2009 8:42:01 GMT -5
Perhaps he didn't want to jeopardize his chance of reinstatement. Any hint of scandal while working another job would be one more mark against him.
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Post by tjara on Apr 9, 2009 13:38:44 GMT -5
@obc Thanks! That makes sense!!
Just a random thought - but was it ever planned that Bobby be suspended THAT long when the story arc was created? I'm not so sure about that, I sometimes wonder whether they merely acknowledged that this much time had passed between filming/airing these two eps (which was because of the strike, but still). I mean, come to think of it, isn't it strange that Bobby still has his desk at MCS or that Eames isn't temporarily partnered with someone? (I realize that happens in the ep, but for real, if Bobby had been out for 5 months, shouldn't she have been partnered with someone for a while? She can't sit around and twists thumbs, can she? He was partnered with someone when she was on maternity leave, so...)
I get the feeling that the original plan was different and they (TPTB) never fully "accomodated" the script. I mean - wouldn't LOCI have returned in January/February so he'd probably been out for something like 2 months?
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Post by outerbankschick on Apr 9, 2009 18:13:22 GMT -5
Maybe Eames' worked alone for that time? Or she had temporary partners here and there, like she did with Daniels this time. Sheesh! Don't they know by now that we need to know these things!
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Post by Moonbeam on Apr 9, 2009 18:43:15 GMT -5
In retrospect, we know Goren had a lot on his plate during his suspension (paternity, Donny, the where abouts of his brother). He probably spent numerous hours with his union rep trying to get some compensation while on suspension.
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Post by hargiteam42 on May 15, 2009 8:33:33 GMT -5
@obc Thanks! That makes sense!! Just a random thought - but was it ever planned that Bobby be suspended THAT long when the story arc was created? I'm not so sure about that, I sometimes wonder whether they merely acknowledged that this much time had passed between filming/airing these two eps (which was because of the strike, but still). I mean, come to think of it, isn't it strange that Bobby still has his desk at MCS or that Eames isn't temporarily partnered with someone? (I realize that happens in the ep, but for real, if Bobby had been out for 5 months, shouldn't she have been partnered with someone for a while? She can't sit around and twists thumbs, can she? He was partnered with someone when she was on maternity leave, so...) I get the feeling that the original plan was different and they (TPTB) never fully "accomodated" the script. I mean - wouldn't LOCI have returned in January/February so he'd probably been out for something like 2 months? It was implied in the episode that Eames worked without a partner for the time Goren was out. It is not really plausible, because Eames is not a uni, it isn't uncommon for uni's to work alone in smaller cities, such as the one I live in, but I find it highly unlikely that she worked alone that whole 5-6 month period. It would be too overwhelming and too much of a risk to her well-being and protection. I don't think that particular part was very well thought out, despite the fact I ADORE this episode.
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Post by jeffan on Sept 4, 2009 10:14:22 GMT -5
I watched Purgatory yesterday evening and, at first, thought it was going to be a mixed bag. If it had not been LO:CI, I would have tuned into another channel. During the first commercial break, I decided to give this episode another chance by watching it to the next set of advertisements and, if I was still unsure, switch over. Well, I got drawn into the storyline and watched it through to the end.
Any sympathy I felt was with Eames.
First off, the look she gave her partner’s empty chair. That would be expected after working so closely together all those years. She made the point of saying to Ross that Daniels was a “temporary” partner. When explaining to Daniels the story behind Goren’s suspension, she was very supportive of her partner and carefully worded it in such a way that she was firmly in Goren’s corner. Here, I thought that, on the surface, Eames was very loyal to her suspended partner, but, underneath, she was not on firm territory. I liked that in Eames – presenting an outward solidarity towards her partner regardless of her misgivings. I laughed when she told Stoat to get his feet off Goren’s desk.
The discussion with Moretti (was that her name) also revealed an Eames who was fully aware that she had worked her way up from the bottom, through the ranks and into the Major Case Squad, despite her being female, in a male dominated institution. It also reinforced the idea of Eames being a straight-down-the-line and working strictly within the legal parameters of a police officer. Nevertheless, it also showed an Eames who is willing to give someone a second chance.
I do think there was a deliberate attempt by the writers throughout this episode to emphasize Eames’ sense of loyalty towards her partner and her up-front attitude towards her colleagues (including Goren). This would cause greater impact in the scene when she finds out Goren had been working undercover. It did. She must have felt marginalized professionally by both her male colleagues (Ross and Goren) – and – to add insult to injury – betrayed by her partner.
I think Eames was perfectly justified in feeling a sense of outrage. Aside from nearly killing her partner, she states that they had worked together all those years and always watched one another’s backs. Goren replied that he was only “protecting” her. That was a completely different argument to watching one another’s backs, and she knew it, as it implied that Eames, even though being a thoroughly professional detective and proved her worth time and time again, yet, this time, because of her gender, she was excluded in this particular case. Yes, there is the argument that Goren was “undercover” – but, I do think that if it had been vice-versa, and based on her reaction to the “betrayal”, Eames would have made her partner aware of the case she was working on. I think loyalty is very important to Eames. I also think that Eames had a black/white way of looking at things, but Goren in their working relationship had shown her that there was also a grey area. Even so, Eames must have thought that, when the going gets tough, she was excluded – debunking any idea of it being an “equal” partnership. Would Goren have excluded a male partner? There was no mention whatsoever of Eames when Ross and Goren were striking the deal on how he could get his badge back. Surely, you would expect Goren to ask if Eames should be in the loop?
I liked the way she “snorted” at him when going home. Goren was left sitting there abandoned and isolated. This was like a “thirty pieces of silver” moment and he realized it.
I hope that Wheeler turns out to be even half as good a partner towards Nichols as Eames is to Goren!
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Post by Patcat on Sept 4, 2009 11:25:31 GMT -5
Great post, and I agree with a lot of what you've written Jeffan, but I don't think Goren was protecting Eames because she's a girl. He's protecting her because she's his partner and his friend. She just happens to be a girl (g). Seriously, though, I think there are moments when Goren doesn't think of her as a woman. She's his partner, and his friend, and her gender doesn't matter. At the same time, I think there are other moments when he's acutely aware that her gender has and does make it tough for her. In short, I think he would've excluded a maler partner as well.
They're both in a terrible position when it comes to PURGATORY. I think Goren wants so desperately to get his badge back--and to get back to working with Eames--that he's willing to accept almost any conditions. (By the way, I think Goren may be right when he suggests the Chief of D's may hope he'll get killed while he's undercover. The Chief's personal vendetta is the only real reason I can think of to keep Eames out of the loop. She's not going to tell anyone and she's certainly not a bad cop.) Was it a mistake and a betrayal not to tell Eames? Yes, but I think Goren was trying to make the best of a bad situation.
As for Eames, her blowup at Goren was a long time coming. He has ignored and treated as a water carrier in the past (although I sense he's probably apologized for these things). She's nearly killed him, and thinks he may have become a bad cop (and I think these two things are what really sets Eames off). Hence, her explosion.
But, they now seem to be reconciled. As I've written before, I'd like to have seen how that happened.
Patcat
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Post by jeffan on Sept 4, 2009 12:47:15 GMT -5
Thank you Patcat and also for your insights.
Yes, as you wrote, it was a dangerous undercover mission – even the Chief of D’s acknowledged that by his “hope” that Goren may be killed. Yet, why would Goren think that Eames would be in danger and in need of protection if she was not an active part of the undercover operation? He knows that she is a first-rate detective and someone who is completely trustworthy. I know that the case Eames was working on “conveniently” overlapped with Goren’s case, but Goren would not have known that when he struck the deal with Ross. Goren had the chance to “come clean” with Eames when they met on the street and she accused him of not answering her calls. He chose to let the opportunity pass by. As you wrote, Goren wanted his badge back at all costs regardless of the consequences. Again, as you wrote, that was the straw that broke the camel’s back for Eames. I’m not yet convinced that Goren would have handled the situation in the same way if Eames had been his male partner. But, moving on -
I, too, would have liked to have watched a scene where they “cleared the air”. Oh, and I did enjoy the Rogers and Ross “lunch moment”!
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Post by maherjunkie on Sept 4, 2009 12:48:23 GMT -5
Any sympathy I felt was with Eames. First off, the look she gave her partner’s empty chair. That would be expected after working so closely together all those years. She made the point of saying to Ross that Daniels was a “temporary” partner. When explaining to Daniels the story behind Goren’s suspension, she was very supportive of her partner and carefully worded it in such a way that she was firmly in Goren’s corner. Here, I thought that, on the surface, Eames was very loyal to her suspended partner, but, underneath, she was not on firm territory. I liked that in Eames – presenting an outward solidarity towards her partner regardless of her misgivings. I laughed when she told Stoat to get his feet off Goren’s desk. I think Eames was perfectly justified in feeling a sense of outrage. Aside from nearly killing her partner, she states that they had worked together all those years and always watched one another’s backs. Goren replied that he was only “protecting” her. That was a completely different argument to watching one another’s backs, and she knew it, as it implied that Eames, even though being a thoroughly professional detective and proved her worth time and time again, yet, this time, because of her gender, she was excluded in this particular case. Yes, there is the argument that Goren was “undercover” – but, I do think that if it had been vice-versa, and based on her reaction to the “betrayal”, Eames would have made her partner aware of the case she was working on. I think loyalty is very important to Eames. I also think that Eames had a black/white way of looking at things, but Goren in their working relationship had shown her that there was also a grey area. Even so, Eames must have thought that, when the going gets tough, she was excluded – debunking any idea of it being an “equal” partnership. Would Goren have excluded a male partner? There was no mention whatsoever of Eames when Ross and Goren were striking the deal on how he could get his badge back. Surely, you would expect Goren to ask if Eames should be in the loop? I liked the way she “snorted” at him when going home. Goren was left sitting there abandoned and isolated. This was like a “thirty pieces of silver” moment and he realized it. I hope that Wheeler turns out to be even half as good a partner towards Nichols as Eames is to Goren! Jeffan are you crazy?? ;D Goren is the one who is in hell. If there was any wrong doing here is was on Ross' end. She's a cop, she's been undercover, she should've sucked it up and gone on. I don't think she would have gone against captain's orders either or Bobby would have treated her different if she had been a man. She has been a good partner but I don't see where she has EVER been marginalized in any way. I think Goren has been isolated long enough; he shouldn't have to choose between his partner and his livelihood.
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Post by jeffan on Sept 4, 2009 13:14:46 GMT -5
LOL - oh, yes - it always helps to be a little crazy!
I disagree with your point about Eames not feeling marginalized. I thought it a natural reflex to discover that your partner has been working undercover and that your superior officer was the one who had given him the "choice" to do this as a way to be reinstated.
I fully agree with your point about not having to choose between your partner and your livelihood. My contention was that Goren used the excuse that he wanted to "protect" her! Like you said, Eames is a savy cop, worked undercover herself - so it just didn't square for me - other than that she is a woman!
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angua
Detective
Posts: 281
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Post by angua on Sept 4, 2009 13:24:02 GMT -5
After the events of "Untethered," he might have wanted to protect her from the brass's wrath. If Goren ever saw Eames as a damsel in distress, we would have seen it before now.
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