nosee
Detective
Posts: 220
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Post by nosee on Jul 7, 2008 17:31:24 GMT -5
I liked this episode. Can't say I loved it. Something was missing. This whole case seemed too easy for our dynamic duo. There was no big puzzle to solve. I mean come on. The murder weapon just falls out of the diaper bag at Goren's feet. Goren and Eames were on the same page the whole show. Even Ross didn't put up too much of a fight over anything. While it was nice it seemed wrong. kwim? There was no a-ha moment for the detectives, the captain or us.
It was great to see glimpses of the old days. Loved the part when Eames said I'll make sure you're his type and then called him Bigfoot LOL Also loved when Ross said I guess my grandkids will never get in. It was all very light but left me wanting more.
nosee
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jul 7, 2008 17:42:42 GMT -5
Jessica is an excellent example of how an actress who has been in movies/stage/tv for decades still has the juice to play a roll. I think she was spendid as the B***hy mother-in-law. The way she held her mouth made you want to hit her. LOL
And the scene where Goren notices her sweating and shifting around in her chair was priceless. She had been so B***hy and contemptuous to him and now it was his turn to be ever so sweet and helpful by offering her a trip to the bathroom. He knew she had to go and he knew she would be insulted and embarrassed by his knowing that. He got his jab in without openly insulting the harpy. And he did it in a gentlemanly way.
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Post by deathroe on Jul 7, 2008 17:45:35 GMT -5
Another Callas fan, I take it. And a heartbreaking analogy.
But surely ... D'Onofrio and Erbe don't come across as failing? Why can't they have better scripts to inspire them?
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Post by dragonsback on Jul 7, 2008 17:54:58 GMT -5
But surely ... D'Onofrio and Erbe don't come across as failing? Why can't they have better scripts to inspire them? Yep, D-Roe, couldn't agree more with you . It's a script thing. The writers can't even draw good villians/perps anymore. Forget Nicole, even. Compare and contrast Kit Sternman and Lucille Mowbray with Kathy Wahts-Her-Name. Just a teensy example of a big malaise in the writing. Oh,. and take Erbe - Erbe's role, specifically -out of the above analogy altogether. Eames has never been more compelling, IMO.
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nosee
Detective
Posts: 220
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Post by nosee on Jul 7, 2008 20:20:21 GMT -5
VDO did say that Eames comes into her own this season.
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Post by annabelleleigh on Jul 7, 2008 20:45:39 GMT -5
...It's bad enough when the three sister shows do the same story...even worse when one show repeats itself. It's almost like the writers had a story wheel to help with this episode: getting into the right school (Enemy Within, Bright Boy), husband stepping out with other men (Maltese Cross, Brother's Keeper), Goren and Eames held at gunpoint (Siren Call, Phantom).... Meant to tell you earlier, N-Mom: What an apt and amusing image -- a CI story wheel substituting for original story ideas. I can't shake the thought of Son, Martin, Rubin, O'Connor, Hairston, O'Shea, etc giving it a spin. It would explain much about Season 7. ;-) AL
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Post by deathroe on Jul 7, 2008 21:46:50 GMT -5
Eames being compelling is all Erbe and no credit to the writing (save the physical fact of having more extended scenes). As a non-actor, it is sometimes easy for me to forget amidst the mannerisms and the writing chaos just how good she is.
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Post by darmok on Jul 7, 2008 23:26:20 GMT -5
I liked this episode. As others have said, it wasn't the best, but I think it's the best since they've come back. Although, if this was written before the strike, I'm not sure anout the rest of the season.
I liked the aria. Yes, we've seen similar scenes before, but they're not the same. Just enough to make us think we know it. Certainly, there were shades of Siren Call. But, while that one had an unusual ending (Goren wasn't sucessful, and Ray shot himself), this outcome was more typical. She couldn't shoot herself, and Goren triumphed. What I likede was the shades of Nelda. She was surprised and upset at Goren for tricking her. But this time Goren didn't let himself get sympathetic toward her. She did kill the parents of three children.
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eva
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 86
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Post by eva on Jul 8, 2008 4:54:31 GMT -5
It’s almost impossible to write about something new. It’s about “how“ it is done and it was okay for me. Not the type of storyline that keeps you on the edge of your seat but certainly not a waste of time either. The murders were tough for me to see. My twins are two years old and having these parents getting shot in front of their children was a bit too much for me. It reminded me of the weird thoughts I had the first year at home with my babies. I was often- very often- worryed about what could happen to me while beeing alone home with the kids. Back then my husband used to come home from work around midnight and we were new in the neighborhood. I didn’t know if people would notice or care if the babies would be crying for hours, for example. The episode itself was good. Not great but I still enjoyed watching it. It was good to see a pretty much relaxed team investigating. It was good to see a clean shaven Goren (I really like him more like that). And it was good to have little light moments again. Right now I’m almost relieved that my mother in law lives very, very far away Though she never ever would talk about/ with me like that. And I loved Goren’s last line. So simple, yet great. I said the perp didn't deserve empathy, because she shot the parents in front of their young children, then left the kids to the mercy of whoever/whatever might happen by. And for what? Because she blamed herself for her son being wait-listed, and she had an overbearing mother-in-law? But in my friend's opinion, this perp had to be crazy to do what she did, so where was the empathy? I think even if she were crazy, she was unrepentant. The obvious example...Tagman was crazy, but he hated what he did and was sorry. I think Bobby sees a difference between people who have severe mental illness, such as schizophrenics, and those we say "must be crazy to do what they did." The first group isn't responsible for their actions. The second group is able to distinguish right from wrong, and needs to acknowledge their crimes for Bobby to show that empathy. Exactly. All she cared about at the end was that she was irreplaceable as a mother, that she did this or that and so on. She didn’t even mentioned once the other families. She just didn’t seem to care about what she did to the kids (shooting parents in front of them and then leaving them behind in places that looked pretty deserted to me (park in the dark, for example...))...
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Post by DonnaJo on Jul 8, 2008 6:37:31 GMT -5
Lovely post, Eva. And your English skills are excellent. You conveyed your thoughts. beautifully. Interesting about Goren's empathy (or lack of) for Marla. I saw a definite, visible shift in his attitude immediately after she handed him the gun. Before that, as she was crying about being alone & lonely, Bobby felt for her, you could see it in his expression. He empathized with her aloneness. But when they were squared off after the weapon was given up, she said "I'm irreplaceable." Goren paused, and I thought I saw his expression change to one of contempt. He realized that she had no remorse, that it was all about her. There was absolutely no guilt about the other "irreplaceable" parents she killed. It also annoyed me personally that she was wearing a cross around her neck. If she's so religious, why is she murdering innocent people?
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eva
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 86
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Post by eva on Jul 8, 2008 7:10:47 GMT -5
Lovely post, Eva. And your English skills are excellent. You conveyed your thoughts. beautifully. Oh, thanks It also annoyed me personally that she was wearing a cross around her neck. If she's so religious, why is she murdering innocent people? That is something that always has annoyed me, too. Not to long ago it was fashion to wear any kind of religious symbols. I hated it. People running around with crosses, icons of Jesus or even Krishna, Ganesha and so on without knowing what it means It still happens with the shirts of Guevara always have been popular, too. Sadly only a few of the buyers know who he was.
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Post by Patcat on Jul 8, 2008 8:48:28 GMT -5
Marla is a pretty nasty piece of work. She could've been worse, I suppose, and killed the children rather than the parents, or she could've killed the parents away from the kids. There's something terribly coldblooded about killing a parent in front of a child. But would she have become this murderer if her mother-in-law hadn't been so horrible? And does the husband deserve any blame in all of this?
Patcat
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Post by deathroe on Jul 8, 2008 9:38:11 GMT -5
Marla's husband was strikingly absent, wasn't he?
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spits
Detective
Posts: 224
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Post by spits on Jul 8, 2008 9:55:32 GMT -5
I also liked this episode. While I too think the story was recycled (and perhaps a bit simple), as other posters have mentioned I did enjoy the lack of excessive partner angst. "And there goes Eames, off & away, just like Siren Call. Yet this time around, they both realized that Marla had run out of steam..." To me, this time, it made more sense to have Eames stay with the kids. You have a group of three year-olds, just waking up from a nap, and you're trying to herd them out of the room quietly. Who are they more likely to follow? A big burly man, or a petite woman who looks completely non-threatening? Most kids who are taught about "stranger danger" are looking for a menacing man, not a gentle woman. Eames had the better chance of getting the kids out of there quickly, quietly and safely. I agree with this - even though it parallels what happens during Siren Call, it makes the most sense given the situation.
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Post by DonnaJo on Jul 8, 2008 10:29:53 GMT -5
It's like a latter-day Maria Callas concert, when the ageing, beloved diva did a cracked medley of her great operatic roles. Whenever she managed to hit the C above high C, the despairing and loving audience went wild with applause. Glimmers of Classic Goren keep many of us going with this (IMO) broken-down series. Unlike Callas, though, this Voice can be rescued. It just takes will on the part of writers and actors. No more excuses. Excellent analogy, DB. I don't know about broken down, but everyone is definitely older, including the show's premise ('why dunit w/quirky cop) which has been copied & recopied since 2001. I think in striving for the new & different, the writers inadvertently go back to classic & formulaic ("Hey, this is pretty new....we only used this story back in 2003). New writers would be worst, as they don't know the characters back stories & classic Goren would really get lost, IMO. You talk about Voice and about Will. We saw a few evenings ago that VDO can pretty much turn back into classic Goren (circa 2004) whenever he wants to. He has such a handle on his character, he can do basically anything with him. "Will" he want to finally restore Goren to what he was, at least in part? My fear is that the spiral will continue downward, until all that is left is a broken, weary man, older than his age.
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