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Post by diablodeblanco on Jul 9, 2008 20:54:27 GMT -5
On the other hand, he referred to the panic one feels being separated from one's partner as "primal." The paper throwing incident is also referenced in "Silencers" (I can't watch it much either. It makes me SAD), and then in "Purgatory," Eames stares at Goren's desk. Subtle? Not really. Deeply rooted? Quite possibly. The difference that I see is that Goren knew Eames would be back. That his awkward and uncomfortable time with a new partner would come to an end. Eames, on the other hand, didn't know if Goren would be coming back. She talked like he was but it hit me as if her saying the words would make them come true. I think Eames is more adaptable than Goren is.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jul 9, 2008 21:00:58 GMT -5
Heh, I saw Eames as being fairly take-charge sans Goren. I guess different people see different things. I agree, D-roe, she was take-charge, but no real spark, no one-liners. She was doing her job well and continued to take-charge (as she'd gotten used to doing) through Betrayed. But the melancholy was gone in Betrayed because she was still ticked at Goren. Better ticked than numb - things can only improve from uber-ticked. I agree, better ticked at him than numb. Anger seems to indicate emotion still there. Something to work with. Numb....bad. No emotion there and possibly one person gone emotionally from the relatiionship never to return.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jul 9, 2008 21:05:59 GMT -5
I have 2 touchy, yet honest questions, so I am looking for honest answers (I would push it and ask for unbiased answers, but I never ask a type of question I couldn't answer myself): On a character-wise perspective was the episode good, bad, as bad, equally bad, better or way better than last week Logan/Wheeler episode? Same question on a story-wise perspective? I think character wise the episode had some flashes of the partnership prior to the Eames ripping Goren a new one. I think it was a better one that the Logan/Wheeler one. That one felt flat to me. JMO Having Jessica Walter as the harpy MIL was a plus. She has on screen presence.
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roots2rock
Silver Shield Investigator
Birthdate: September 6 VIRGO!
Posts: 101
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Post by roots2rock on Jul 9, 2008 21:09:25 GMT -5
To all who posted re this week's "Please Note..."
I agree with those who saw a glimmer of "a blast from the past" in this episode. But let's be real about it. Either we still love LOCI and want the original CI back or we settle for what we're getting now--which is not quite the real deal. This show needs its ADA, not just three main stars. I say we boycott CI until TPTB--you know who they are--get the show back on track, including the original theme music! I, for one, am getting sick and tired of the lame stories and so-so characters.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jul 9, 2008 22:35:13 GMT -5
To all who posted re this week's "Please Note..." I agree with those who saw a glimmer of "a blast from the past" in this episode. But let's be real about it. Either we still love LOCI and want the original CI back or we settle for what we're getting now--which is not quite the real deal. This show needs its ADA, not just three main stars. I say we boycott CI until TPTB--you know who they are--get the show back on track, including the original theme music! I, for one, am getting sick and tired of the lame stories and so-so characters. I don't think a boycott is the answer.
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Post by quietfireca on Jul 9, 2008 22:48:24 GMT -5
I think character wise the episode had some flashes of the partnership prior to the Eames ripping Goren a new one. I "ripping him a new one" roflol!! I gotta remember this. ....wiping away tears of laughter... Thanks diablodeblanco - you've made my day! He's been walking just fine in spite of that....
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Post by lrkfan on Jul 9, 2008 23:25:20 GMT -5
Okay, I can't for the life of me figure out how to get this to actually appear as a quote, but dragonsback said: "...his acumen and his instincts and his sensationally seductive ability to Play. Not normal, exceptional. And sexy."
Yes! That's exactly what I miss about Bobby! There's a reason why cops call what he does "playing" a suspect. In the early episodes (Jones, for example, since that's been mentioned on this thread) it always felt like Bobby and Eames were playing a game. It was a really important, really high-stakes game, and they were certainly playing to win, but it was a game, and they were definitely on the same team.
There were glimmers of that in Please Note--I too loved the "I'll make sure you're his type" line and Bobby's answering look--but overall even this episode, for all its lower angst quotient, still didn't feel like vintage CI gamesmanship. I am so over Depressed!Bobby and Brittle!Eames. Bring back the play. Bring back the snark. Bring back the dancing.
Memo to TPTB: Let them get over it already!
Susan G. (who hopes she has this posting thing figured out okay)
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Ladyheather
Detective
An acquired taste.....
Posts: 441
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Post by Ladyheather on Jul 10, 2008 3:59:20 GMT -5
Maybe with a new showrunner, the past flavor of LOCI will return. This one had some of that flavor and the familiar playing off of each other was present here. Not a lot but some.
I want a mentally strong Bobby and snarky, sharp Alex.
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Post by Metella on Jul 10, 2008 7:38:33 GMT -5
I just saw this for the first time - Like others -
I knew the put-upon wife did it as soon as the MIL started in on her & I was Gravely Disappointed .... CI now seems to be cookie cutter plot - always put in a red herring and then go for the person that statistically would NOT be the killler. Well, it can work once in a while, but now it just show laziness on the part of the writers and a settling for lower standards.
I was very disappointed in this one. The MIL should have been the killer & they should have had a good "confession" in the interrogation room with son finally seeing the truth - or some money connection with the head of the pre-school & have that lady doing it for tons of money from the MIL who was paying her.... something new.
Bigfoot? the writers can't even give a nod to the fans that is not so obvious and trite??? sheesh. No wonder I am not catching the new shows and making sure I have them set for recording - they stink so much I totally forget about the show until I am channel surfing.
What a shame, I really loved this show.
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Post by dragonsback on Jul 10, 2008 8:14:29 GMT -5
I ...CI now seems to be cookie cutter plot - always put in a red herring and then go for the person that statistically would NOT be the killler. Well, it can work once in a while, but now it just show laziness on the part of the writers and a settling for lower standards. ... The MIL should have been the killer & they should have had a good "confession" in the interrogation room ... Bigfoot? the writers can't even give a nod to the fans that is not so obvious and trite??? sheesh. No wonder I am not catching the new shows and making sure I have them set for recording ...What a shame, I really loved this show. I am moved to say that this opinion is as perfect a summation of what I'm thinking as has ever been written. "ITA" is inadequate. You are a long-time member here, I gather, Metella, and a respected one. That must count for a great deal with members who may not agree.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jul 10, 2008 8:51:10 GMT -5
I just saw this for the first time - Like others - I knew the put-upon wife did it as soon as the MIL started in on her & I was Gravely Disappointed .... CI now seems to be cookie cutter plot - always put in a red herring and then go for the person that statistically would NOT be the killler. Well, it can work once in a while, but now it just show laziness on the part of the writers and a settling for lower standards. I was very disappointed in this one. The MIL should have been the killer & they should have had a good "confession" in the interrogation room with son finally seeing the truth - or some money connection with the head of the pre-school & have that lady doing it for tons of money from the MIL who was paying her.... something new. Bigfoot? the writers can't even give a nod to the fans that is not so obvious and trite??? sheesh. No wonder I am not catching the new shows and making sure I have them set for recording - they stink so much I totally forget about the show until I am channel surfing. What a shame, I really loved this show. I think many long time fans, viewers who were on board from the very beginning (me included) share these sentiments. We are a group of fans who long for the glory days....the days of memorable episodes that we revisit every chance we get. I find myself watching some of those old episodes and thoroughly enjoying both the characters and the plots. Now I watch just to see VDO and KE. Don't get me wrong, I am appreciative that the show is still being filmed. I would HATE to see it cancelled.....and yes, I know things change over time, but for me the changes in the characters and plots don't have the same effect on me that the early episodes had and still have. The new episodes don't stay with me after I turn my TV off. The old ones, even now after watching a rerun for the umtenth time, will linger even after I leave the room to do RL things.
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Post by Patcat on Jul 10, 2008 9:09:38 GMT -5
There's a perception in the early episodes that Goren was a bit of a ladies' man. There's the girl he ate furballs for, there's Irene (the banker/investment type), and Denise, at least. Although, at the same time, he always seems shy when any of his girlfriends are mentioned.
I like the old Bobby, and I agree that his playful delight in showing off his brain is very attractive. But I also, well, maybe "like" isn't the word, but am fascinated by his long dark journey. He's been through a lot. Just his encounters with Nicole Wallace are enough to cause him to question what and why he does what he does. Add to that the loss of his boss/protector/father figure (and Deakins is the one authority figure who's treated Goren well and showed himself worthy of Goren's loyalty and even he leaves), the discovery that his partner/friend doubted him, the attack on that partner/friend caused at least partially by his mentor (another authority figure who betrays Goren's trust), his mother's illness, his mother's betrayal, his brother's betrayal, his discovery of a nephew, and the betrayal of the organization Goren's devoted his life to--if this guy were the same after all that, I'd be worried about him. Of course, all the stuff I've just listed does more than suggest things are getting a little ridiculous (g).
Maybe I'm too naive and forgiving, but I still look forward to the LOCI episodes with Goren/Eames, and they still stay with me. But I watch LOCI for the mystery of Robert Goren. For me, if you want a procedural or a show with the latest techy things, there are plenty of other things like that on TV. But there's nothing else with Goren and Eames.
Patcat ( on the verge of sounding pompous and sorry for it)
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Post by DonnaJo on Jul 10, 2008 9:17:08 GMT -5
On a character-wise perspective was the episode good, bad, as bad, equally bad, better or way better than last week Logan/Wheeler episode? Same question on a story-wise perspective? Mimi, as a Goren lover, I will always choose Goren as a character over Logan. Trying to be objective, I think Goren was more interesting than Logan this time around. As far as the guest leads, both older, lead women from each episode were equally as good. I liked "Please Note..." storyline much better, personally. Perhaps because I don't care for political plotlines. And I do love seeing how clueless Upper East side Manhattanites are about what is really important in life. Hope this helps a bit.
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Post by DonnaJo on Jul 10, 2008 9:39:55 GMT -5
Maybe I'm too naive and forgiving, but I still look forward to the LOCI episodes with Goren/Eames, and they still stay with me. But I watch LOCI for the mystery of Robert Goren. For me, if you want a procedural or a show with the latest techy things, there are plenty of other things like that on TV. But there's nothing else with Goren and Eames. Patcat (on the verge of sounding pompous and sorry for it) You don't sound pompous at all, Pat. And I feel exactly as you do. Even with all the problems, CI is still the best show on television. And Season 7 Goren still by far the most interesting, compelling, sexy character out there. The Goren/Eames episodes stay with me for days. They whirl around in my head. And the more problematic Goren's life is, the more I worry. I too, watch LOCI for the mystery of Robert Goren. Many do. It's that character, even now, that interests most fans. I do agree that better written story lines and arias will help make the show more interesting, especially to the regular viewer (people who don't rewind & slomo Goren scenes to wring every little drop out of them) ;D
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Post by dragonsback on Jul 10, 2008 9:47:31 GMT -5
T I like the old Bobby, and I agree that his playful delight in showing off his brain is very attractive. But I also, well, maybe "like" isn't the word, but am fascinated by his long dark journey. He's been through a lot. Just his encounters with Nicole Wallace are enough to cause him to question what and why he does what he does. Add to that the loss of his boss/protector/father figure (and Deakins is the one authority figure who's treated Goren well and showed himself worthy of Goren's loyalty and even he leaves), the discovery that his partner/friend doubted him, the attack on that partner/friend caused at least partially by his mentor (another authority figure who betrays Goren's trust), his mother's illness, his mother's betrayal, his brother's betrayal, his discovery of a nephew, and the betrayal of the organization Goren's devoted his life to--if this guy were the same after all that, I'd be worried about him. Of course, all the stuff I've just listed does more than suggest things are getting a little ridiculous (g). Maybe I'm too naive and forgiving, but I still look forward to the LOCI episodes with Goren/Eames, and they still stay with me. But I watch LOCI for the mystery of Robert Goren. For me, if you want a procedural or a show with the latest techy things, there are plenty of other things like that on TV. But there's nothing else with Goren and Eames. Patcat ( on the verge of sounding pompous and sorry for it) Never pompous, always forgiving And you stay with a thought, and support it with examples. Most impressive., always. We shall have to disagree here, though (with great respect to you, and may I say again that everything you write is of interest). Mystery of Goren was laid out delectably in the early years, IMO. The New Goren is lupenprole, without any mystery. Many lovely members here are doing the writers' jobs, IMO: filling in the blanks left not by tantalizing ambiguity, but by crap writing. Is Goren's little smile/blank stare/elevated eyebrow an allusion to his mother's schizophrenia/louche father/druggie brother/ unresolved DNA test/ craving for a pastrami sandwich? Will we ever get more than glimmers and glimpses of Goren - or is this series in the dead hole of being just a playwright's tide--me-over paycheck? I have ever been a fan of Warren Leight. Boy, though, I wish for the return of the arrogant control-freak scriptwriting-and-camera-trained Balcer, who kept all the creative types in harness. JMO Still. on reflection: Balcer dropped the ball in Season Five with a thud heard round the LOCI world . I have always suspected that he gazed too fondly into a mirror. Maybe the magnificent Stephanie Sengupta would be a far superior choice. All talent. no Balcer preening.
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