js
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 143
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Post by js on Oct 9, 2004 11:22:41 GMT -5
VDO has shown a lot of interest in Orson Welles and his work. Here are some photos that show an uncanny resemblence between the two men. I also read OW filmograph, radio, and stage lists of work. I knew that Welles had a lot of performances, but I was still surprised at how long this list is. D'Onofrio already has quite a long list of his own, so it seems he could certainly equal and/or pass OW just on the number of performances in his life. (VDO, of course, won't do radio the same way OW did, but then VDO has his TV performances. What do you think, folks? js
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Post by NikkiGreen on Oct 9, 2004 14:18:21 GMT -5
Thanks js for the interesting pictures.
I read somewhere that VDO was directing and starring in a short film about OW this summer. I guess this explains the rather long hair we'll see on Goren tomorrow evening.
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js
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 143
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Post by js on Oct 9, 2004 14:31:38 GMT -5
Yes, V. did do a piece about Orson Welles - this summer, I think, at NYU.
I would have guessed that the first 2 - 3 eps of this season were completed before summer. I think that any series usually has several new season episodes "in the can" as they call it before breaking for summer. The last ep of season 3 filmed duing the middle of April, so they would have time to complete more eps ahead of time. I think I read that it takes 8 days to film an episode, including both inside and outdoor locations. I've been thinking that the longer hair would come after breaking for the summer. On the other hand, with the OW thing coming up, V may have started letting his grow early on, and we will see it in these next episodes.
We'll soon see!!
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Post by trisha on Oct 9, 2004 16:53:26 GMT -5
Making Goren wear OW's hair is unprofessional, IMO. If that's the reason, he could always wear a wig or extensions for OW. Wigs and extensions can look very real when done right, and Goren wouldn't be affected by it.
He does look a quite a bit like OW. Nice pics, JS.
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Post by velocity on Oct 10, 2004 0:11:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the pics js (jennie sue) I am curious, where did you get them? I have seen them on Fans and Forum. Did they come from there?
Re Vinces' hair for Goren - were does it say in the CI bible that Goren's hair should be so close cropped (shades of Season 3) you can almost see his scalp? I for one, am real happy he has some length on his head again. You can still look the professional with some growth. Lord, last year was such a butcher job it was pathetic. Season 1 and 2 were fine, but man, the lawn mower came out in 3. I hope the fired the grounds keeper and he/she took the mower with him/her. First time I saw the Premier pics, the Mexico pics, and the opening montage for 4, I breathed a sigh of relief. Finally some of his great curly hair has returned. I think he looks fantastic like that, and hope it stays a decent length with an ample amount of Ms. Clairol. Det. Goren is ready set go.
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Post by trisha on Oct 10, 2004 9:00:44 GMT -5
I didn't write that Goren was unprofessional for having longer hair. I wrote that D'Onofrio would be unprofessional to let the look of one character affect another when it could easily be prevented.
It's not just the long hair. He got pretty chunky to play Pooh Bear and that affected Goren, too. Besides the fact that, as Observer noted on another thread, it's physiologically impossible for a meth addict to be overweight, there are ways to reflect being over weight without actually gaining it and bringing those pounds to a character who reads the Smithsonian on his treadmill. Know what I mean?
I really respect D'Onofrio for getting so into his characters, many actors wouldn't go as far as he has to be real. That's why it makes no sense to me if OW is his true motive for the long hair, as the weight gain was for Salton Sea. He shouldn't sacrifice the personal appearance of one character to benefit another.
I think that, for the most part, Goren's hair has been consistently pretty short. In "One" it was quite long, but after that, it got shorter and stayed about the same length.
Whether or not you like it is immaterial to the character. Here we have a man who spent at least 10 years in the military where he was under regulation to keep his hair short. I don't know how many ex-military men you know, but all the ones I know have maintained the short hair they were uses to having. Not that buzz cut you see on guys in boot camp -- that is not a forced standard. It's just what you get from a barber who gives the same cut to a hundred or so guys a week. The standard is a closely cropped, neat and even hair cut, and that is what Goren has had for the better part of 3 seasons.
What I find unprofessional about Goren is his facial hair, and while on the subject of what military guys are used to, that another uncharacteristic thing. He never would have gotten away with it there, either. I just don't get why D'Onofrio keeps pushing this. It's not real.
By "Ms. Clairol," do you mean you wish for him to dye those grays?
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js
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 143
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Post by js on Oct 10, 2004 9:05:08 GMT -5
A forum friend had the OW pictures and sent them to me. js
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Post by Techguy on Oct 10, 2004 13:14:05 GMT -5
II think that, for the most part, Goren's hair has been consistently pretty short...Here we have a man who spent at least 10 years in the military where he was under regulation to keep his hair short. I don't know how many ex-military men you know, but all the ones I know have maintained the short hair they were uses to having...The standard is a closely cropped, neat and even hair cut, and that is what Goren has had for the better part of 3 seasons. What I find unprofessional about Goren is his facial hair, and while on the subject of what military guys are used to, that another uncharacteristic thing. He never would have gotten away with it there, either. I just don't get why D'Onofrio keeps pushing this. It's not real. As an ex-military man, I'll chime in with my own personal choices in the manner of hair length and facial hair.
After my tours of duty ended, I opted for a considerably longer length hairstyle mainly as a means of distancing myself from the military life and re-establishing my identity as a civilian again. I also opted to grow facial hair for the same reasons.
The hair I gradually had cut shorter (mostly for employment ) while I continued to keep a close cropped moustache and beard. I gradually phased out the facial hair altogether since my wife preferred the clean shaven look. I have maintained this look for at least seven years, but in no way does it resemble or remind me of my military days.
As for Det. Goren, I agree that the short cropped neat hairstyle would be consistent with both his military background and current position as NYPD detective. And I can accept the unshaven look on occasion, in moderation, if the suggestion is that he went to a crime scene without having time to shave. But the continued (over)use of the facial hair is not consistent with the professional nature of the character and is a bit distracting.
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jaquetta
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 171
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Post by jaquetta on Oct 10, 2004 16:01:20 GMT -5
I find the facial stubble distracting too. It seems really unprofessional. Don't they have lockers there w/razors? My dad had a razor in his desk when he caught a homicide and would be out a few days just in case.
I'd just like to add that my best friend had a girlfriend who had a meth habit and was overweight. Never could figure it out.
Wow, VDO really does look like Orson Welles in that picture. Poor OW. Boy Genius Blow Up Career and Ends Up Hawking Boxed Wine (or something like that). All that talent.
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 10, 2004 16:04:43 GMT -5
Actually, Balcer's team did think to include a set prop poster called the personal appearance guide for Law and Order as a permanent part of the set.
It says: keep hair tapered to general shape of the head and not reaching the collar... sideburn neatly trimmed and not extending below the lobe of the ear...keep msutaches neatly trimmed...It comes complete with diagrams. It's posted under set pics in the general ci disscussion area.
Goren's scruffy appearance doesn't fit with the culture of NYPD and Vincent is flirting with the overall credibility of the character by some of his improvisations. Although, as a woman, I like the stubble.
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Post by domenicaflor on Oct 10, 2004 23:41:47 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing the pics JS. I saw them on VDOFANS as well. What an uncanny resemblance. It's almost scary. The pics that came off the LOCI premiere party also look very Wellesian to me.
I am not partial to the new haircut (from "Want"), which may or may not be connected to the Welles project, but that is neither here nor there.
I don't like facial hair on men, but that is also neither here nor there. I do agree with some of the other posters that it looks unprofessional. I understand that there may be some 5 o'clock shadow if a detective is called on a case, and I also understand if a man is trying to grow a beard that there is a transition time involved.
Very well, but I thought that Goren looked like total crap at the beginning of "Semi-Detached". While I understand that D'Onofrio has creative control of some aspects of Goren, and that he himself has stated that he sometimes comes to the set unshaved to show Goren as not having slept, etc., I think that there needs to be some control and consistency of such aspects of the character. If it was done intentionally to show that Goren is taking a mental/emotional downturn, fine. However, if it is just D'Onofrio expressing how he feels about Goren on a given day, then I don't agree since it's potentially very confusing to viewers. I say, make a choice and make it stick. I haven't seen all the episodes of L&O original, but I imagine that we have not seen Lenny Briscoe look like he has fallen off the wagon. However, on NYPD Blue we know EXACTLY when Sipowicz has been going to the bar instead of his AA meetings.
On the subject of weight gain for roles, I think that it's D'Onofrio's prerogative to make those physical changes. It's his body, and it's his choice. Now, for Pooh Bear in The Salton Sea, I happen to agree with his decision even though it's probably physically really rare or damn near impossible. Pooh Bear completely stood out from the rest of those tweakers, and the weight was a large part of that aspect. He wanted Pooh to be larger than life (pun intended) and that's what he got.
On the timing of the weight gain/loss between Salton Sea and the start of LOCI, D'Onofrio has mentioned in interviews that it was much harder for him to take off the weight that time than it had been in previous years when he was younger. So he admitted to being 15 or so pounds over his usual weight when he started playing the character of Goren. Given that there probably was not much time between the shooting of Salton Sea, The Dangerous Lives of Altar Boys, and Bark followed almost immediately by filming of LOCI, I understand if the weight didn't come melting off.
If D'Onofrio has gained weight for the Welles project, I don't see that necessarily as betraying the character of Goren if he still looks professional and if it is not excessive. I have much more trouble with watching other characters gain weight in a much more obvious manner. (Case in point, in Star Trek William Shatner would gain weight throughout the shooting season and the camera crew would have to get creative with the shots given those tight uniforms. 2nd example: I really enjoy CSI and I enjoy William Petersen as an actor, but if you compare the first half of the first season of CSI to now and watch the interim progression, you can see that he has gained quite a bit of weight.) Being overweight myself, I am never going throw stones at people who are struggling with the same glass houses and stones that I am, so I am definitely willing to cut D'Onofrio slack on this issue.
D.
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Post by Observer2 on Oct 11, 2004 1:53:43 GMT -5
...as Observer noted on another thread, it's physiologically impossible for a meth addict to be overweight... Trisha, actually I wrote that it’s “...something that is virtually impossible, physiologically speaking,” and I said “virtually” for a reason. Brain chemistry can be fluky, and while I’ve never before encountered even a rumor of an overweight chronic user of crystal meth, I don’t know for sure that it couldn’t happen. On the other hand, Jaquetta, theoretical possibilities aside, I have to wonder about the nature of your friend’s girlfriend’s habit. Usually, when a young woman is overweight and ‘has a meth habit,’ the “meth” being talked about is in the form of methamphetamine pills – often illegally obtained prescription pills – originally used in an attempt to lose weight. That’s a very different situation from someone who has sniffed (and injected? I can’t remember for sure) pure crystal meth for years. If she was using pure crystal meth (sniffing, injecting or smoking) and was still overweight, I’d be very interested in how long she’d been using. In any case, the reason people use meth to lose weight is that one of its effects on the brain is to suppress appetite. One of my brothers mainlined meth for a while (mainlining is injecting directly into a vein). He was over six feet tall (he was 6’4” as an adult, but this was in his mid-teens) and he weighed around 120. The joke was, if he broke a rib they wouldn’t have to x-ray him, just stand him in a dark room and shine a flashlight through him. A couple of his friends (also teens) ran a meth lab, and supplied local teens. He had a few friends who did other drugs, and one was quite overweight. But every chronic user of crystal meth I’ve ever seen was skin-and-bones, and I’ve never heard or read of one that was overweight. And enough people know that that, yeah, I would consider that decision a mistake. Domenica, you know, I truly believe that D’Onofrio could have made Pooh Bear stand out from the rest of those tweakers without gaining an ounce. He can make himself larger than life whenever he chooses. On the other hand, It’s interesting to hear that it was part of his reason. Thanks for passing that along.
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Post by trisha on Oct 11, 2004 10:01:04 GMT -5
Okay, virtually impossible. Given the fact that Pooh Bear's nose had been destroyed by snorting meth, I would say he had a pretty hefty habit, and one that he maintained without a nose, which would make it highly improbable, if not impossible, for him to be overweight. Back to the hair and the military, I see you there Techguy. My brothers way of rebelling against the confines of military conformity was to pierce his ear the day he signed his discharge papers All in all, I think the evidence against the long hair and stubble is overwhelming.
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jaquetta
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 171
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Post by jaquetta on Oct 11, 2004 13:31:55 GMT -5
Well, her addiction was extensive enough that there was always pilfering and petty theft around her but I don't know the exact nature of how much she used. She couldn't hold a job but she did manage to get re-employed frequently enough. My guess is that she didn't smoke or mainline it but even so, I'd never met anyone who used the stuff that frequently that was so overweight.
And back to VDO, he looked nicely professional and polished last night. I like the slightly longer hair, but that's a strictly personal preference since I would imagine it falls well within the NYPD guidelines. It's the stubble that gets to me. It's so....well, it's so acting.
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 11, 2004 14:59:17 GMT -5
D'onofrio acts like a middle-aged Brando which is a compliment but he also looks like him, lately, which is not. All men, especially older ones,: stay away from Brylcreme, pomade and long tresses. It’s so dating.
Jacquetta, Observer:
My apologies. I didn't mean to interrupt the serious and very interesting discussion you were having. I cut and pasted the above comment from a post I wrote on the Want episode because appearance-related comments there were directed here. Only later after I read the thread entirely, did I realize how abrupt my comments sounded.
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