7:20 Neighborhood Watch 2008-08-10

[dragonsback]

Shouldn't Neighborhood Watch have migrated to this Episode Discussion board by now? As far as I can see, it's still in Gen Ep pre-screening discussion. Have I missed something?

[DonnaJo]

No, you are right about starting this as a new thread. We members take it on, depending on who gets here first. The Mod's don't set it up. So good work, DB! You just need to add the date & episode number, like the other ones have.

I'll start with a few off hand comments. I thought it was a solid episode. It kept me going & guessing for a while. For awhile I thought it was that cold case Detective who went on Faith Yancy's show, in order to promote his serial killer theory. Upset that he didn't get Ross' MC job & looking for fame? He seemed too schlubby to be a consideration for the Chief of the elite Major Case unit.

I seemed to recall from the casting call that Wheeler's fiancee was named Andre, and the implication was that he was a Frenchman she met while on assignment in Paris. Surprised to see Mr. Nicholson (Jonathan Cake, her real life hubby) cast as Colin, a Brit, which he indeed is. Since this is supposed to be a recurring role, working together should be fun (and lucrative) for the Cakes.

I found it unlikely & somewhat improbable that a case of statutory rape involving a 15 year old girl & a 19 year old boy would evoke such paranoia & hatred in a place like Queens, which I know has far worst sex offenders living in the borough. It just didn't ring true for me. And the parents of that girl, so incensed with their daughter dating a 19 year old, that they prefer she say she was raped? What year is this?

This is all supposed to lead into next week's case, where this ADA from hell returns to further push Logan's buttons? After all of these years, seeing a constant stream of unjust cases, getting exiled to Staten Island, would simply handling two tough cases in a row dishearten our Logan into leaving? Is seeing Wheeler happy with her fiancee a factor here?

[Ladyheather]

Wheeler's happiness seemed to hit Logan hard. It was nice to see Logan and Ross sharing some drinks together. Two men, jaded by the long hard days and being alone. Not what either expected at this point in their careers.

I did like the story. I personally know of a local story similar to this. A local boy and girl had this kind of relationship. He was prosecuted for rape and is now listed as a sex offender. It ruined both their lives. The local prosecutor has his eye on bigger things and wanted to make a name for himself.

[DonnaJo]

I found the attitude of the two mom's particularly ruthless. Sure, you don't want a sex offender around your neighborhood. But to be so blase about the fact that he was stabbed 15 times and his head was cut off? I thought their attitude was inhuman.

I have kids too, so it's not like I don't relate or have the same fears as other parents. But no one deserves that, especially knowing the facts, which they did. He had a Mom too, and I felt horrible for her.

[ragincajun]

Poor guy a victim of the system. And then to be harrassed by a cop. It seemed to me the cop should have been charged with something. Anyone else wish Goren was there sharing drinks too? Oh well, Can't wait to see what happens next week. Oh and thanks for pointing out that was Nicholson's real life hubby, I didn't know that. I was real disapointed in the so called rape Victim, shouldn't she be 20 by now? If she would have just fessed up Now about what the DA did, he would probably still be alive.

[annabelleleigh]

Warren Leight's commentary, in which he explains that this episode originated with Chris Noth:

www.usanetwork.com/series/criminalintent/video/commentary.html

and the two-minute replay (both after the usual hucktering, this week of vodka and deodorant respectively. "No celebrity endorsement implied.")

www.usanetwork.com/series/criminalintent/video/2minreplay.html


AL

[nosee]

Thanks AL for the link to Warren Leight's commentary. I found it fascinating when he said that each case was suppose to bring a bigger toll on Logan because you could really see that so clearly last night. It is so obvious how worn down he is by all these senseless cases. Cases that have no reason why they are done. And on top of it all he sees life going on around him and passing him by, like when Wheeler introduced Logan to her fiance. (I thought it was so cool that her own husband is playing her fiance, Colin.)

Overall I thought it was an excellent episode. Plenty of twists and turns working through it. I loved that we got to see more of Rodgers. Liked the side story with Ross and that retired cop who wanted his 15 minutes of fame.

I thing I would have loved to have seen. When the guy who was up for Capt. of MCS with Ross came talking about doing some profiling and thought they had a serial killer on their hands. Wouldn't it have been great to see Ross hand the paperwork to their own in-house profiler, Goren to get his take on the case. It could have been so fun. Especially hearing what he would say about Logan's comment about profilers. Oh the missed opportunities!

[Patcat]

Confession--I've not seen the episode yet (went to the Indiana State Fair yesterday, had a great time, but came home exhausted), but I found Mr. Leight's commentary fascinating. I've a friend who's a fingerprint expert, and he's frequently commented about how juries now want DNA evidence for everything. He's neutral about the L&O shows, but really hates the CSI programs. Oh, he says it is possible to change your fingerprints, but it's expensive and painful and usually sets up a warning flag. So, another hole in the Tates infiltration plot.(g)

Obviously I'm going to have to catch this episode.

Patcat

[diablodeblanco]

Aug 11, 2008 10:19:54 GMT -5 DonnaJo said:

I found the attitude of the two mom's particularly ruthless. Sure, you don't want a sex offender around your neighborhood. But to be so blase about the fact that he was stabbed 15 times and his head was cut off? I thought their attitude was inhuman.

I have kids too, so it's not like I don't relate or have the same fears as other parents. But no one deserves that, especially knowing the facts, which they did. He had a Mom too, and I felt horrible for her.

The sex offender was a sympathetic character in this episode. He was the system's collateral damage. He did not deserve his fate. But.....I can think of many other sex offenders in real life who deserve worse than what happened to the character. They deserve the same fate as their victims. The same kind of death.
(I know, I know...uncivilized but oh so appropriate IMO)

[DonnaJo]

Yes diab..I hear you. Your post reminded me of poor little Adam, the son of the host of America's Most Wanted. He was sexually abused, physically abused, murdered & then beheaded. A murder/ beheading in that case would have been totally understandable.

[misty98]

I found this episode particularly interesting because it dealt with issues which I deal with IRL ("in real life"). I actually work for a law firm which does a lot of defense work on the civil side, and some of the cases we handle involve allegations of sexual misconduct. We don't represent the perps...or alleged perps, as the case may be. Rather, typically, we represent the perp's employers or the organization where the alleged incidents occurred.

I would say that about 50% of the sexual misconduct cases we see today involve not adult vs. child sexual abuse, but so-called "Romeo and Juliet" situations, where the female participant is somewhere between 15 and 16 years-old, and the male participant is somewhere between 18 and 25 years old. Although there is no "force" involved, because the female is under the legal age of consent, the sexual activity is not legally "consensual." If the lovers are caught, it's usually the female participant's parents, and not the female participant herself, who desires criminal prosecution, and the parents seem to be motivated by two things: (1) parental guilt and (2) secondary gain (translated: $$$$ from a civil suit).

It's important to keep in mind that not too long ago, relationships between young teenage girls and older males was the norm, and it wasn't all that unusual for teenage girls to marry young. Of course, nowadays, when we hear about teenage girls marrying young, we automatically think a religious cult must be involved.

Also, it's important to know that men who prefer adolescent girls are NOT pedophiles. They are hebophiles. Pedophiles have a preference for prepubescent females (or males). From a psychosocial standpoint, there's a difference. Yet, in many states, the law does not recognize that difference, and the hebophiles are prosecuted and sentenced under the same guidelines as pedophiles. That can include imposing sexual offender sanctions, such as having to register as a sexual offender, having to notify neighbors of your status when you move to a new location, etc.

In this episode, the perp was a hebophile, and although I may have missed or forgotten some of the details in the episode, it appears that he was actually prosecuted and punished as if he were a pedophile. Because the law didn't take into consideration the particular circumstances of the crime and labeled this young man a "sexual offender," society reacted accordingly. The neighborhood vigilantes weren't particularly interested in the facts which led to this young man's arrest, prosecution and conviction. As far as they were concerned, he was a pervert, and they wanted to get rid of him.

While I'm certainly not an advocate for sexual offenders, I can definitely relate to Logan's sympathy for the young man who was killed. He may have made a poor judgment call, but he served his punishment. This kid probably would have never reoffended. He didn't deserve to die.

Sorry for being long-winded and more than a little rambling. It's the end of a long day, and I'm lucky to be able to find the keyboard, let alone form coherent sentences!

[DonnaJo]

Excellent post, misty! Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.

Again, the idea that a New York City ADA would make so much out of this type of "Romeo & Juliet" case is hard to imagine, and for me, not realistic. In other parts of the country, sure. Or if the perp was a minority, like Latino. Sadly, then it would have seemed more likely (especially here on Long island) for the type of vilification that this young man received by this family, especially the father that we met.

I'm looking forward to seeing Jonathan Cake again in "Last Rites." I like how the producers sometimes use family. Like Erbe's son in "TWAH." Last season, both Jeremy Sisto's wife and mom, had small roles in a mothership episode. We've seen Gene D'Onofrio in the background once. Why not have VDO's sister in a bit part?

[annabelleleigh]

Aug 12, 2008 6:31:05 GMT -5 DonnaJo said:

..Why not have VDO's sister in a bit part?

Geez, I don't know, DJ. You must have seen her in "The Velocity of Gary," the three-ring VDO film circus that no one really directed. For me, that answers the question. ;-)

AL

P.S. On a less flippant note: Thanks also, Misty, for your expertise and perspective. I love it when members here bring their nonvirtual life experiences to the board by way of illuminating an episode.

[Patcat]

Al, I have to ask about your comment that no one really directed VOG--do you have some inside information about the film's production, or was that a criticial comment ? If the latter, I gotta agree with you--that's a strange film.

I think Elizabeth D'Onofrio also has a bit part in THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD, a much better film than VOG.

Patcat (have I mentioned in the last week or so how much I love THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD?)

[annabelleleigh]

No inside information Patcat. I think even the most casual observer can see that no one was in charge during filming -- and that desperation (or an NYU film school freshman) drove the disjointed, campy final cut.

AL