|
Post by Patcat on Feb 7, 2008 15:43:56 GMT -5
I suspect the LOCI influx is the result of Mr. Balcer's influence.
I prefer to call Nicole Wallace the Evil One, but it's just personal taste.
Patcat
|
|
|
Post by NikkiGreen on Feb 7, 2008 16:30:13 GMT -5
So, anyone hear any promos or news releases from NBC that this was the show's 400th episode?
|
|
|
Post by DonnaJo on Feb 7, 2008 17:36:25 GMT -5
Just re watched the segment in the car when Green is teasing Lupo about his slow reading of the textbook. He says, "You wanna get through law school you're gonna have to pick up the pace a little bit." So Lupes is IN law school already. Hmmm. I checked that too with the closed captioning. Very unrealistic, if you know anything about going to law school part time (which I do). Classes are four night a week, set times. You really must go to all the classes, very few absences are allowed. A Homicide Detective with the schedule Lupo has would never get through it. Cops who go to law school at night usually have desk jobs & set hours & shifts.
|
|
|
Post by diablodeblanco on Feb 7, 2008 18:58:33 GMT -5
I think Goren's peeling of the UO onion was his way of getting to the truth. Tearing down the charade of UO's life was not only his way to make the case but to perhaps even help her realize that she didn't have to be the evil that she had been for so long. I also believe Goren really likes matching wits with a good villain. Maybe ego, maybe just a sense of doing a good job and standing up for victims. I think a little of all three. UO's charades were a survival mechanism. She had done so much wrong in the world that she constantly had to shed her skin and become someone new to stay one step ahead of the law. As to Goren's sparkling little girl comment, perhaps it was more of look at your potential, look what you could have become. Now look at what you HAVE become. And yes, UO taking on the skin of a respectability and sophistication was wishful thinking on her part. But I don't think that at any time she lost sight of what/who she was. I think she was constantly using or manipulating people and situations to her own benefit trying to stay one step ahead of the ones chasing her. UO hit me as truly mental. The new villain in town seems just plain ruthless. Either way I hope things continue on LO with her.
|
|
Penn O'Hara
Silver Shield Investigator
LOCI Cowboys
Posts: 147
|
Post by Penn O'Hara on Feb 7, 2008 19:42:15 GMT -5
There was mention that the first time Goren met Nicole Wallace he was attracted to her before he realized *she* was his perp. I never saw that. I only saw him react to her intelligence as a witness/player in his case before he realized her culpability. He also soon realized that she was out to push his buttons as much as he hers, and a grudging respect of that intelligence grew coupled with an abhorrence of what she was.
But by his fifth run-in with her, he's so totally sick of her that he wishes she would disappear from his jurisdiction forever.
She admonished him for not trying to see past her 'evil' and he had to accede that he never gave her the benefit of the doubt and that wasn't going to change. Nicole put out her hand and he slapped it back. His prerogative. There was no way he could, in his position, do *anything* for her other do everything in his power to put her behind bars.
No hope there, Nicole.
|
|
|
Post by diablodeblanco on Feb 7, 2008 20:20:36 GMT -5
I think in the initial contact between the two, Goren was attracted to her because at first he saw an attractive, accomplished, polished and educated witty woman who could banter back and forth with him and not lose......trading little barbs and jabs on an equal level. I don't think the attraction lasted more than the first meeting. He soon realized she had something, not sure exactly what, to do with the crime. On some level much later, I believe Goren saw some of himself in her. Both had crappy beginnings, both survived them but it was at this point they go in completely different directions. UO sank into the muck of her early life and she becomes what he hates in the world and he rose above the bad beginning and he becomes the doer of good deeds. In another episode it was said that he could have gone either way. I think he was aware of that. And maybe that scared him. Maybe looking at UO across the table in the interrogation room reminded him of that which could have been. Instead of being the questioner he would have been the questionee. Kind of like an alternate future. Both for her and for him.
|
|
|
Post by DonnaJo on Feb 7, 2008 21:40:43 GMT -5
Well, I for one hope they aren't going to give Cutter his own Nicole in the form of last evening's villianess. I didn't feel any real chemistry between the two actors/characters. Better if they just let her sink back into her real identity, whatever that is.
|
|
|
Post by Sirenna on Feb 7, 2008 22:10:31 GMT -5
I'm kind of glad there was no chemistry between Cutter and Brody. I personally don't need it in this particular story for it still to be effective. I think his final line that "well now she's no our problem" is foreshadowing and meant to make us think she'll be back with more mysteries for us to solve. I look forward to it too.
I think cutter's ambition is his particular achilles heel which he has yet to explore as a character. Sometimes he's very close to crossing the thin line that makes some people just shady and some people criminal. Jack is his vocal representation of a conscience and if so, then Cutter almost never listens to Jack. In this episode Brody was kind of like Jack's opposite. Jack is angel on his shoulder and Brody acted as the red devil on his other shoulder. Cutter could have gone either way. Contrast that with Goren who profiled evil so closely he knew what the perp smelled yet I never got the impression in seasons one through five that Goren was ever tempted to move over to the other side - the devil that was Nicole/Elizabeth interested him at first but then he most definately rejected her throughout their encounters.
Just my two cents.
|
|
|
Post by diablodeblanco on Feb 7, 2008 22:28:53 GMT -5
Well, I for one hope they aren't going to give Cutter his own Nicole in the form of last evening's villianess. I didn't feel any real chemistry between the two actors/characters. Better if they just let her sink back into her real identity, whatever that is. The actress who played Brody didn't seem to have the stage presence that OdA has. As much as we hate her character, OdA does play her well. The character we love to hate.
|
|
|
Post by Patcat on Feb 8, 2008 9:47:48 GMT -5
Nicole is capable of individual good acts, such as her release of Gwen, but her evil will always come out. Goren knows that, and it's why he warns her that she will eventually hurt Gwen. I think Nicole continues to pursue Goren because he survived and she didn't and because he peeled away all of her lies to reveal what she really is. Both Nicole and Goren are what circumstances made them, but at some point each had a choice.
Patcat
|
|
|
Post by diablodeblanco on Feb 8, 2008 10:19:00 GMT -5
Nicole is capable of individual good acts, such as her release of Gwen, but her evil will always come out. Goren knows that, and it's why he warns her that she will eventually hurt Gwen. I think Nicole continues to pursue Goren because he survived and she didn't and because he peeled away all of her lies to reveal what she really is. Both Nicole and Goren are what circumstances made them, but at some point each had a choice. Patcat Patcat-- Ever since I first saw that episode I wondered if the reason Gwen was released was so the UO had a better chance at escaping.....self preservation. As long as she had a kidnapped child with her, she was more vulnerable than if she were alone. I know she became the child's protector when she was with the father but perhaps she wanted to keep the family unit intact at that point so that she had time to marry the father, use him for whatever purpose and then dispose of him. She knew of his plan to kill Gwen and she knew that would call a great deal of unwanted/unneeded attention from the police. Keeping Gwen alive could have been selfserving on UO's part. Just a thought......
|
|
Penn O'Hara
Silver Shield Investigator
LOCI Cowboys
Posts: 147
|
Post by Penn O'Hara on Feb 8, 2008 16:03:22 GMT -5
I agree. Most of my fascination for Nicole Wallace hinges on OdA's excellent portrayal of her. With a less suitable choice of actor, Nicole could have been filed into the one episode wonder category. True, she's the only perp that Bobby hasn't managed to pin down by the end of her episode, but she still could have slipped into obscurity if OdA hadn't done the exceptional job she did.
And let's not forget Whoopi Goldberg's character, Chesley Watkins. I felt sure she would return at a later date. WG's performance was solid throughout “To the Bone”, but positively dynamic in the interro room with Logan. As far as I’m concerned she falls into the same category as Nicole. A villain you love to hate, a nemesis for a main character, a formidable foe still at large. The only reason I can think of for her non-return is WG is too expensive or not interested. Else, the writers could have been teasing the bejeebers out of us by allowing her to avoid justice.
So, I’m in the boat that wants resolution, I’m afraid. I *want* to see Nicole return even if for only one final, terminating appearance and I definitely want to see Chesley return and see how she fared now that social services wouldn’t be giving her any more ‘boys’ to corrupt. Who knows? It might be a chance for Logan to work through his ‘mother’ issues.
|
|
|
Post by DonnaJo on Feb 9, 2008 11:18:45 GMT -5
I think cutter's ambition is his particular achilles heel which he has yet to explore as a character. Sometimes he's very close to crossing the thin line that makes some people just shady and some people criminal. Jack is his vocal representation of a conscience and if so, then Cutter almost never listens to Jack. In this episode Brody was kind of like Jack's opposite. Jack is angel on his shoulder and Brody acted as the red devil on his other shoulder. Cutter could have gone either way. Contrast that with Goren who profiled evil so closely he knew what the perp smelled yet I never got the impression in seasons one through five that Goren was ever tempted to move over to the other side - the devil that was Nicole/Elizabeth interested him at first but then he most definately rejected her throughout their encounters. Just my two cents. A great two cents, Sirenna. ;D I think you've really explained the Cutter character. He's torn between his ambition & what is right, something I never saw in McCoy. Good will triumph in this man most of the time, but it's interesting to see his conflict. It's easy for a halfway decent actress to play the over the top Villian-ess. You get to really emote; to gloat, jeer, snicker , cajole....etc..... I was much more impressed with January Jones' (that's her name, right?) portrayal of Brody as such an innocent, helpless pawn. Every now & then she'd give the audience a fleeting expression that conveyed her deception. And she had everyone totally fooled, except Lupo, Green & Cutter. Even the FBI, who are always presented as idiots in the Law & Order franchise.\ I'd love to see her again, once.....
|
|
|
Post by Sirenna on Feb 9, 2008 11:57:00 GMT -5
I think Goren's peeling of the UO onion was his way of getting to the truth. UO = unpeeled onion?
|
|
|
Post by Cassie on Feb 9, 2008 12:27:39 GMT -5
Well I know I am in the minority here, Maybe true mothership fans (and those who do not post on this board) find the Nicole episode fascinating, But I felt I was being served a left over casserole. Sorry, but thats the way I feel...... and I like the new L&O shows, with Cutter as the new prosecutor and McCoy as the new DA.... and with Greene and Lupo..... Diablanco..... you mentioned having a visual with Lupo wearing socks..... what color do you have him wearing.....I see him wearing a 'cedar green' shade
|
|