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Post by Patcat on Sept 12, 2008 9:02:00 GMT -5
Rudy--Does he really care anything about art, beyond the money it can bring him? Did he love it once and then become disillusioned by the business of art?
Sylvia--Does she have any talent? Did she once, and lose it?
Patcat (some thoughts that popped into my head)
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Post by DonnaJo on Sept 12, 2008 11:09:29 GMT -5
Good questions, Patcat. Rudy--Does he really care anything about art, beyond the money it can bring him? Did he love it once and then become disillusioned by the business of art? I see him knowing art more than loving art. That scene when Sylvia destroys the gallery painting in anger - his reaction always disturbed me. He should have been horrified that the painting was destroyed. Instead, he just looked embarrassed & slightly annoyed. I think she had some talent, but that "gift" that a great painter has, to evoke deep feeling in a viewer, she lacked. She was good a mimicking the work of others - she had no voice of her own.
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Post by tjara on Jan 27, 2009 5:13:59 GMT -5
I think this might be the first episode I ever saw from start to finish. I will admit, I'm somewhat surprised about what others have written about this episode, especially the Nazi-part. I don't think Langer is supposed to be a Nazi, if so, there would've been more blatant references to that. I think he was depicted as a classic villian: know-it-all, arrogant, tries to outsmart others, ruthless, greedy, chauvinistic, pretends to have higher morals than he does... Also, I think that Langer was supposed to be in his 50s, that places his birthdate roughly at the end of World War II. I just don't see the Nazi part, not even a really nationalistic tone. We have these around, and they sound and behave differently. I'm conflicted about Langer's accent, too. He's definitely French in the dubbed version, but I can't hear the real German accent in the original version either (and I hear many of these all around me - cause some german speaking people should not attempt to speak english, really ). I don't think the actor did that a good job in portraying it - and his German was even worse. VDO's pronouciation was way better (like someone who had learned the language, actually) than the other actors, and I'm thinking that if that guy is supposed to be a naturalized american, for good's sake get someone that can speak the supposedly native language properly or at least decently. The only Nazi relation that I see is that Langer tried to make money of paintings that he knew that didn't exist anymore, and all of these paintings had originally been stolen from Jewish families. I'm sorry to be paying this much focus on that point, but this kind of Hollywood-evil-Nazi-stereotype usually kinda makes me want to vomit. As a historian I'm the last person to mitigate any of the war crimes or the holocaust, but stereotypes just don't help. Especially since I know how much these stereotypes stick with people. I had a row of unpleasent experiences during my year as an exchange student to the US, and much of that was based on such stereotypes. Somtimes the intentions weren't bad, but the people simply didn't know any better. I'm though surprised, that some did see that in this episode, as I didn't. Maybe I have to rewatch... As for the story of art - wow - what a twisted, cleverly made up story. It's so nice how Goren uncovers every layer, or let's use an analogy: How he paints the picture! It's great how he makes the painter confess, only to tell her "Welcome to the human race." Wow, what a blow... I also like the glimpse at Goren - he's made out to be well-informed, well-traveled and with a good/modern taste. We learn a lot about him in this episode. If you want to, I can catch that line for you. I didn't realize Bobby was speaking German at first, but once I knew, I managed to understand him just fine.
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Post by DonnaJo on Jan 27, 2009 8:00:09 GMT -5
Forgive me, tjara. I'm sure I categorized Langer as a "Nazi" without even checking back to my posts. Here in the US, any diabolical, evil German is usually referred to as a "Nazi." Do I think Langer was actually a member of the Nazi party? Of course not. But I do see your point, that using the term to describe every bad German dude is inaccurate, negative stereotyping. Thanks. I didn't know, and I appreciate learning this.
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Post by tjara on Jan 27, 2009 8:25:15 GMT -5
Don't worry, DonnaJo. I realize now I sounded a lot more offended than I intended to.
I wasn't aware of that use.
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Post by Patcat on Jan 27, 2009 9:10:00 GMT -5
Actually, the term "Nazi" is probably overused in this country to taint anyone considered diabolical and evil. Conservatives like to use the term "Liberal Nazis" and Liberals throw the term "Nazi" at a lot of conservatives. It's another example of pollution of language.
Patcat
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Post by Moonbeam on Jan 27, 2009 10:01:19 GMT -5
You forgot the "Soup Nazi!" ;D
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Post by outerbankschick on Jan 27, 2009 22:26:08 GMT -5
Words out of my mouth, Moonbeam! Stole my thunder there, girl! We play serious cards in my family and our nickname for my Nana, and sometimes my Dad, is the "Card Nazi" because both of them like telling you how to play your own hand. LOL! As for "Art", this episode I have always liked. Frivolious moment here: I think Goren speaking German is so sexy! Kind of like that moment in "Probability" when he counts to three on his fingers in French. Just want to lap him up! Anyway, Sylvia Moon comes across as a pretty sorry figure, almost worse than Rudy Langer. Rudy was motivated by greed, which as a motive is not exactly redeeming, but Sylvia was motivated by envy (in the killing of her roommate) and blind ambition (she didn't care if two more people ended up dead, as long as she got her stupid show!). I also loved the references to fine art and Langer's disdainful remark about motorcycles inside the Guggenheim. It was a moment of arrogant snobbery, but one that probably resonates with a lot of people who wonder a little about "modern" art. As for Goren's taste. . .well. . . LOL! I had to look up Lucien Freud's work and I understood why Eames said "You can't put it in your home. You can't live with it." And then I have to wonder, if Goren is interested in "thinking" about it. . .what exactly is he thinking???
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Post by tjara on Jan 28, 2009 4:10:50 GMT -5
LOL. I had to google that one and I have to agree with Eames. But then I'm more into photography anyway. I'd be more than will to give "a penny for his thoughts", though I don't think she ever was talented enough to be a real painter, but not because her technique wasn't good enough, but because she was lacking the inspiration that it needed. I actually think he used to enjoy art, but has become disillusioned by what is supposed to be art (wow, I can even understand that sentiment). I think he just saw the chance to make money... and maybe retire from the business that he didn't like anymore... Funny you would say that! I was so happy that Season One is out on DVD over here (still anxiously waiting for 2+3 to follow suit) and that I got to hear their real voices. Both Goren's and Eames' dubbed voices are pretty close (as opposed to Deakins and Carver), but it's always exiting for me to hear the actor's real voice. I wish we could see more of the undubbed stuff around here... Though I have to admit - I don't care whether it's English, German, Spanish, Russian or French as long as Bobby is whispering into my ear... *g*
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