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Post by bermuda on Jun 8, 2009 15:29:21 GMT -5
I thought Andre's motivation became clearer, as Chernuchin intended, with each scene.... I agree with this assessment. It's one of the better CI episodes this season. Professionally speaking for a moment, as others have mentioned, this was not true Folie A Deux. The wife, played by Piper Perabo, was truly mentally ill. She was desperate, jealous and had many fear of abandonment issues. This could be classified into different categories. The husband was manipulative, cunning and was a sad excuse for a mate. He manipulated his wife into believing that their child still existed. He was not sick in the head. He did not want to be caught. He wanted to be the "heir apparent." This was not two people descending into madness. I was caught off guard by the husband having relations with the friend. Redgrave did an incredible job with what little screen time she had. I was a bit let down with the inconsistencies but I saw shining moments of the old Goren, while correcting the husband. I was disappointed by no conversation between Eames and her sister but as the episode progressed, it would have bogged it down. The assistant- a fool. That's the only explanation I can come with for this episode. I wasn't really interested in the burglary or the assistant and his partner's motives. I already knew that they were completely secondary. I, too, was haunted at the end seeing the deceased child in a coroner bag. Goren seemed to be haunted or effected by it as well. I went to sleep last night with that image in my head. A very sad ending. MC should definitely write more episodes! I was left, satisfied and sad at the outcome. I felt sympathy for Emily (Redgrave), the mother (she was truly ill but not an excuse, I know), Eames, Goren and Rodgers. There was moment at the end that crystallized that Goren and Rodgers have attempted to patch up old wounds and shared empathy for the situation.
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Post by quietfireca on Jun 8, 2009 16:56:35 GMT -5
The epi should be renamed "Faux Folie a Deux", but that would have really given it away!
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Post by tjara on Jun 9, 2009 2:11:44 GMT -5
Hey, some more thought on this episode as I noticed a few details when screencapping this yesterday. When Lynn Redgrave's character mentiones that Emma was the only child, Bobby smiles, if only for a brief moment. It's so evident that he can relate to that, that he's probably asked himself that question... because once he's gone, there's not gonna be another Goren. Well, there's Donnie, but he, Bobby, he doesn't have any family and I think he's starting to feel lonely. It was absolutely prominent in the last scene, too. All the pain that he felt because that young life had been taken unnecessarily. When they're with the scientist, talking about the styrofoam, please pay attention to Eames, who's having her coffee. It's hilarious, Kathryn is such a great actress! I might revise what I said about Ross. Goren still doesn't look him straight in the eye, especially when he's not reporting facts but theories. In general, VDO does a lot more of uncomfortable looking back and forth that he did in earlier seasons. This epi has a wealth of exterior shots, and it seems it was quite warm when they shot it. Makes me think this was probably shot before Identity Crisis? (Except for the evident pick-ups, of course) "They have more toys than FAO Schwarz but they don't baby-proof the house?"
I think this line has to go down in CI History as one of Eames great quotes. And, shame on me, I didn't see at first that Goren changes between beard and no beard in the last couple of scenes. They obviously needed those pick-ups to be filmed much later, I wonder what was dropped instead, because we didn't see the Eames-Girl's Heart to Heart. I'm wondering whether we'll see it at all. I gotta congratulate the actress who played the mother. She was excellent, especially in the last scene, when she's falling apart. And I could see Bobby circeling that prey again... This is from the very beginning. If you ask me, Bobby was growing suspicious of the father as early as that. For that being her friend, it was an awfully close gesture. I think it would make so much more sense if Playing Dead had aired after this. Actually, if I put them in a different Order - Faithfully - Identity Crisis - Folie á Deux - Playing Dead - I can actually see Goren heal.
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Post by Patcat on Jun 9, 2009 8:22:09 GMT -5
I think if Bobby was "gung ho" in this episode I'd be really worried about him (g).
Sorry...don't mean to be too flippant. I know from casual encounters with cops--my mother was a dispatcher for a small town--that cases with kids really upset even the toughest of them.
Patcat
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Post by quietfireca on Jun 10, 2009 0:38:16 GMT -5
Has anyone remarked on the wad of cash Bobby tucked into his pocket when they raided the apartment? lol!
I was surprised he did that!
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susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
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Post by susan1212 on Jun 10, 2009 1:26:46 GMT -5
I have enjoyed reading all your posts on this epi. I have some additional comments.
“Folie a Deux”(or a “variation” thereof)
I found the teaser intriguing- very tightly written. In fact, the whole episode was well written. I believe the writers have watched the previous episodes of LOCI and have applied some of the facts from them to this episode.
Examples: 1. At first glance, one might think that Eames was unimpressed with Goren's discovery of the fragmented glass. Knowing how she really feels from other episodes, we can infer she is merely “letting him do what he does best”. 2. A newcomer might think it unlikely that Goren would connect the “boyfriend coming in from London” and the ransomer's statement that “no one will have a Happy Christmas”, even though it wasn't said with a British accent. Knowing his propensity for listening to every single word a witness says (whether it's directed at him or not), and his expertise in languages, we know this is exactly how Goren would have figured it out. 3. Goren was the first to suspect that the baby never made it to NYC, just as he was the first to doubt in “Faith” that Erica, the sick girl, existed. He seems to have a sixth sense about what's real and what's been faked in most cases. I noticed that Goren hung back during the chase scene. I believe he let Eames and the other officers take the lead because not only did he feel they could handle it, but also he felt sometimes being a step behind lets you see something another detective wouldn't. This is another way he complements his partner. This is another layer D'Onofrio adds to his character.
The ending stunned me so much, it took a couple of days for me to get by it enough to write down my reflections. Seeing the baby body bag was horrific enough, but seeing Goren's reaction – his sorrow for the needless death of this poor baby, his physical ache, his shock of the sight, and his own longing for a child all expressed in a matter of seconds - was like a knife piercing my heart. What Vincent did in that scene is why I think of him as such a superb actor.
I think Vincent is playing Goren as a wounded soul who is doing the best he can to do the best job he can, while suffering intolerable losses. It is reasonable to expect him to be somewhat detached at this time in his life, as it is hard to hold everything together when one is recovering from such trauma.
Other comments:
Piper Perabo did a wonderful job acting the juicy role of Calista.
Lynn Redgrave was excellent and totally underutilized. I wonder why she even took the role!
What horrible parents Andre and Calista were – leaving their baby alone in the hotel room and a hot car. It was only a matter of time before something awful happened to her.
Wow! What a gorgeous little girl Annie is!!
If you can find a house to rent in Kent, CT for $750.00 a month, then you must truly be aligned with the gods of renting, because I doubt one could be found for less than thrice that in such a wealthy town!
And finally, thank goodness for Eames' outrage and anger – kidnapping cases must effect all police officers involved deeply, but having been kidnapped herself, I'm sure it was doubly difficult for her. She was on task, honed in, aggressive and effective on this case. Unfortunately, it didn't help Emma. I'm sure she went to visit her nephew after this one! And I'm sorry we didn't get to see the heart-to-heart with her sister.
Susan
P.S. No Suzanne, I missed the wad of cash to the pocket! Another reason to rewatch! Goody!
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Post by tjara on Jun 10, 2009 2:12:31 GMT -5
I missed the wad of cash, too... gee, have to rewatch this afternoon!!
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Post by idget on Jun 10, 2009 2:43:10 GMT -5
Susan stated I noticed that Goren hung back during the chase scene. I believe he let Eames and the other officers take the lead because not only did he feel they could handle it, but also he felt sometimes being a step behind lets you see something another detective wouldn't. This is another way he complements his partner. This is another layer D'Onofrio adds to his character.
You know that makes a lot of sense and he was right behind Eames the whole time if she did need back-up.
I remember seeing Goren grab the wad of cash from the kidnapper but don't remember him putting it in his back pocket. I will have to rewatch that!
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Post by Patcat on Jun 10, 2009 8:52:48 GMT -5
Susan--A very perceptive post. I never thought of the kidnapping affecting Eames--I only thought of the child angle. And the little girl playing Annie was really beautiful. I think Goren also picked up on the fact she didn't look anything like Andre or Clarissa.
Patcat
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Post by quietfireca on Jun 10, 2009 10:56:28 GMT -5
I remember seeing Goren grab the wad of cash from the kidnapper but don't remember him putting it in his back pocket. I will have to rewatch that! I think it was his jacket pocket.... Now I'm back to tracking down the results of the GC - gas chromatography - which made my little heart pitter patter when the techie said it, but then I don't recall hearing the results.....
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Post by ragincajun on Jun 10, 2009 11:09:13 GMT -5
Ok I liked the episode, but how did he go from full beard to shaved then to full beard again so quickly? Also didn't SVU already do the baby kidnapped that was already killed my mommy already? No sorry that was the Original, with Benjamin Pratt. Mommy burned baby in furnace.
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Post by bermuda on Jun 10, 2009 12:45:34 GMT -5
I have enjoyed reading all your posts on this epi. I have some additional comments. “Folie a Deux”(or a “variation” thereof) I found the teaser intriguing- very tightly written. In fact, the whole episode was well written. I believe the writers have watched the previous episodes of LOCI and have applied some of the facts from them to this episode.... Susan, I just wanted to say that I thought this was an excellent and insightful post. You're right about the rent in Kent, CT. Perhaps that was also one of their delusions, joking.
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Post by quietfireca on Jun 10, 2009 20:38:47 GMT -5
Kinda long.... sorry, I finally watched a second time! About that gas chromatography that made my heart go pitter patter... What they showed you was the results from Thin Layer Chromatography, not gas. No wonder I didn’t connect the two on first viewing. (which was at 2 am. You just can't keep a girl from seeing her CI!) I wondered why they hadn’t done DNA on the baby’s bedsheets – but then the couple could have been using old sheets with the baby’s DNA on them. Did you notice the tension/disgust in Goren’s voice when he said the parents were *in their room, next door*? Our kids were always in our room till they were teenagers when we went away. (Then they took up too much space and I had to watch the Simpson's. Worth the price of another room to avoid that!) Thanks to Susan for pointing out how Eames might have been sensitized because it was a kidnapping. Her manner and voice were very tight when she said “That duffle bag is big enough to hold an 18 month old child” Once there was a ransom request the kidnapping “style” was different than Alex’s experience. Ewwww and that makes me think of the things Sebastien and Jo did to their victims. I’m sure that possibility was in Alex’s head a lot. Along with the disgust in the way they *managed* their child…. No wonder she showed a lot of anger in this epi. Foreshadowing: “I keep thinking of Emma in the ground” Calista to Andre when they were alone (a particularly odd thing to say, early in the episode) and then pair that comment with the previously noted “Children don’t die”. Yikes! THEN: At the end I was shocked at how quickly Calista jumps to protect Andre from Goren saying “our child is dead” She seems to “accept” the news quickly in direct contrast to how long her delusion has continued. If you combine this with the two previous comments, I begin to wonder who was fooling who…. Maybe Calista is a lot smarter than I've been giving her credit for. Did you notice how Goren sort of cut off Eames when they were walking down the street after the patronage scene. It bugged me a bit, then when I re-listened I thought this is just what Declan talked about – Bobby being way ahead of everyone else in the room. I’m sure Alex is used to it, but I can’t recall him talking over her like that before. I just LOVE the growing smile on Goren’s face when they sees Annie. It’s a cross between a natural smile at a little cutie who’s grinning from ear to ear at you and a Goren Gotcha expression. Alex’s expression is all about the disgust at the couple. When Ross asks what Goren and Eames are going to do about the couple, like Carver, it seems he’s learned not to ask for details! Bobby simply says “Destroy the illusion” and Ross turns away. Lucky Alex. She gets to go along for the ride! No wonder she stays with him! Anyone ever typed Gobby? instead of one or the other? Of course I couldn’t help but think of Bobby when Emily asked - do you know what it’s like to lose everything? They don’t dwell on Bobby’s reaction, but I then wonder how Emily will continue knowing she only has a few months to live. Were her comments the melodrama of the rich? Bobby has to live with his tragedies. Then again, Bobby didn’t lose everything. He has Alex. Surely Emily has someone - even if the money did nothing for her. It's over. Are you still awake?
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Post by tjara on Jun 11, 2009 5:16:14 GMT -5
QFC, I think we do get Bobby's reaction to Emily's situation when they first meet. He was this knowing, but hurting smile. That is a very interesting angle - so maybe she fooled her husband into thinking that she believed him?? Aw, more food for thought!! I couldn't resist blogging about the coffe mug and the wad of cash... tjaras-blog.blogspot.com/2009/06/tidbits-from-folie-deux.html
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susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
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Post by susan1212 on Jun 11, 2009 7:07:19 GMT -5
AL - I'm glad you liked the writing. I did too.
Thanks to iget, Patcat, bermuda, quietfireca for your kind comments.
Suzanne, you should be the consulting scientist for LOCI ! Send in your resume! And "Faux Folie a Deux" and "Gobby" - you kill me! lol
Tjara - thanks for the vids of the styrofoam cup and the wad of cash - now I have seen them both and no longer feel I've missed something!
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