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Post by Patcat on Apr 7, 2010 10:45:13 GMT -5
You know, there's always fanfic to rewrite the endings...(G)
I've already indulged.
Patcat (yes, I write fanfic. Yes, I'm embarrassed.)
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Post by DonnaJo on Apr 7, 2010 12:16:12 GMT -5
TG, once again you've hit it on the head. Detachment. It was written into the script: Goren out of uniform at Ross's funeral; Goren lines like "it doesn't matter anymore" sprinkled throughout the script. Think: When -- after the hallway confrontation with the FBI agents -- Eames says it's "bad" Goren says "No, it's good." It's good because Goren is trying to get himself fired. It's too hard simply to walk away -- and yet it's over. Goren has nothing left to give the NYPD, just as VDO has exhausted his contributions to Bobby Goren and CI. Annabelle, this makes horrible sense. It explains everything Goren did post Ross' murder. Do you think that he was offered a job with the FBI, or are we to assume that he is done with all aspects of law enforcement? Goren going to the FBI would explain why VDO suggested (back a few months) that there could be a Goren guest appearance. |
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Post by SarahIvy on Apr 7, 2010 13:23:14 GMT -5
A few random thoughts before I read the thread: That felt very flat. It wasn't BAD, but it had a serious lack of passion. It was like instead of a proper exit Goren and Eames just sort of shuffled off. Goren fired for shoving a guy around? Really? Granted, as far as the Powers That Be are concerned it was the last straw in a large pile of hay, but still. It seemed so inconsequential. Also on a related note, the later seasons Goren who doesn't seem in control of his temper and who uses physical violence is soooo not my cup of tea and such a disappointment. It is probably the thing I dislike the most intensely about the changes in the character. Ugh. Eames just quits entirely instead of fighting for Goren to keep his job? Not so much as a peep out of her? That sure didn't feel like the Eames I've known for all these years. I would like to think his odd vague discussion with the FBI lady might have been leading to something beyond just that case, but it could not have been more unclear. I guess I just intensely dislike being left with no clue what the future holds for our detectives. I mean, at least back in ye olden times when Logan punched out the city councilman we got a throwaway line about Staten Island so there was some clue as to his fate. These are middle aged people who have just wandered out/been fired of solid careers....  What a way to just fizzle out. I'm not going to complain about the writing, because that's something I've taken issue with, and gotten over. It's a different show now. This wasn't great, but it was certainly not the worst we've been given. I just didn't care about the plot, which was a shame since they knocked off Ross. Ok, all that said, here are the things I enjoyed about the episode: Nichols. I thought Goldblum was great. For some reason I felt the exchanges with the most energy and zing were those between he and Eames. They have great chemistry, and I wish she was staying on as his partner! Also thought his final exchange with Hassan was some of the best stuff in the whole two-parter. The "fun place to work" snarks. Heh.  Regardless of my negative feelings about how and why they got there, I thought that final little scene between Goren and Eames was nice. |
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Post by Patcat on Apr 7, 2010 13:59:23 GMT -5
Yea, but it wasn't just any guy Goren pushed around--it was a witness in FBI protective custody and a couple of FBI agents and a court officer. Like AL, I think Goren wanted that confrontation. I'm fuzzier about why.
And I'm not certain what Goren's relationship with the FBI is. I don't think he's taking Ross' place--I think Goren is too visible and well known. And I don't think the plan was for Ross to actually travel to Puntland.
Hey, and some kudos to Leslie Hendrix. She was hearbreaking in her few scenes.
Patcat
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Post by outerbankschick on Apr 7, 2010 14:52:46 GMT -5
You are totally correct Patcat! Write away! I've been doing it for some time. I've got one started that begins in S8 and will continue through Loyalty...and beyond... And if you keep saying you are embarrassed about writing fan fic, I'm going to tie you up and tickle you until you scream "SHIPPER!"  I'm don't write ship, but I do sometimes read it. Especially when it's really good.  |
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Post by maherjunkie on Apr 7, 2010 14:58:06 GMT -5
The cliches were screaming! The suspension! The psych evalutation that of course Eames saves him from! The evil Chief of D's! And what was he suspended for?? And EAMES does the firing??? Who is the water carrier now?? And for all the true assholes at that!!!!! Why is Bobby the only one out of uniform in the beginning? To show he is a rebel?? And of course he is alone at home when he needs an alibi. YET ANOTHER CLICHE.
Walgreens could not organize a group of ants to a Hershey bar.
Zach is quirky and Serena good at languages? Great! Two people to do the job of one!
The only thing I liked was the kiss-long, firm, mushy, and the hug. For once they did each other and (me) justice.
I was afraid I would lose the momentum to get my LOCI tshirt lettered with something snarky but I just dropped it off at the printer's now!
I felt incredibly manipulated, used, and drop kicked along with the ending- and you'd think I'd had a good time!!!
Thanks for the memories USA!
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Post by Patcat on Apr 7, 2010 15:13:57 GMT -5
I thought several of the scenes after Ross' funeral were flashbacks--that Bobby got suspended before the funeral, and that's why he wasn't wearing his uniform.
Patcat
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Post by annabelleleigh on Apr 7, 2010 19:36:14 GMT -5
Annabelle, this makes horrible sense. It explains everything Goren did post Ross' murder. Do you think that he was offered a job with the FBI, or are we to assume that he is done with all aspects of law enforcement? Goren going to the FBI would explain why VDO suggested (back a few months) that there could be a Goren guest appearance. Well you know DJ, I don't find it horrible. I'm at peace with this ending. Of course the Somali pirates-FBI-Puntland potentate story was absurd. It was flotsam to float in Saffron Burrows and to hand off the torch to the new team. I disregarded it. If I took solace in that last scene it may be simply because I chose to do so. However I believe I detected the practiced hand of Barbara Hall who produced many a tender moment over the years in her writing for such series as "I'll Fly Away," "Chicago Hope," and "Judging Amy." No, I don't think Goren has gone off to join the FBI. I don't expect we'll ever see him (or Eames) featured in a new CI episode. Unlike the faux freedom extended Goren in the ultimate, macabre, angst-sodden Warren Leight episode, I think now at last he's found release. Eames too. Off to find lives in which they are more than the badges they wore. I'll leave it to fanfic writers to fill in the detail -- though I like to think that Goren has a sweetie down in Tennessee (whence he called during one of Nichols' early episodes). Maybe they're swinging in a hammock right now under a starry Southern sky ;-) And so goodbye Bobby. Goodbye Alex. And to Vincent and Kate -- my profound thanks for bringing them to life. It was a rocky but riveting eight-plus years. Time has come to let them go. AL |
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Post by quietfireca on Apr 7, 2010 19:37:10 GMT -5
I'm not quite sure why I'm here. Looking for comfort, I think.
I'm shell-shocked. Much as I'm always along for the ride, this one has been a horrible rollercoaster for me.
What the heck with all the contriving of the storyline? My God, we could have done better, to heck with the pedigrees behind the writers. Don't any of them have more than a tiny clue about these characters?
Eames unprecidented leapfrog through the ranks just to position her for firing Goren? WTF?
Goren, the smartest guy in the room, kidnapped? By the FBI?? WTF? Did he know who was kidnapping him: "Not really" Not the sort of comment we're used to from Robert Goren.
Goren resigned to the end from the beginning?
What they did to Alex was unforgivable. Let her touch the golden apple and then smash her with it. She was breathless. She was stunned. She was honoured. And then she was horrified. The F'king CofD's couldn't keep looking her in the eye.
The ending. Oh, I've tried to look at that from every which way. What shocked me was that Goren initiated the physical contact. It reinforces to me that Goren is the "female" character. And Alex was the man in that scene. Doing the tough job because it was the right thing to do and then walking away (hopefully from just the job).
But that "I'll see you around, I guess" will burn in my brain forever. To me, it so had the tone of "we'll be in touch but we both know it will never happen".
One of the things I love about loci is the ambiguity in this relationship. And I was confidant the writers would carry that out the door. I am shattered, because I felt there was no ambiguity there. That was it.
Nine years of partnership and I'll see you around? WTF? That's sad, no matter what the relationship.
And that's all I can come up with at the moment. Ya, I'm a sap. But I'm sure I'm not the only person that feels this way... I'm sure as heck open to more positive points of view.
P.S. Burrows character talked about no Pirates in Chicago as the reason she was in NY. I suggest she's the Pirate. Ya, I'm spiteful.
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Post by outerbankschick on Apr 7, 2010 19:52:31 GMT -5
Not Tennessee, AL. She's from South Carolina. And her childhood home does have a hammock... |
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Post by quietfireca on Apr 7, 2010 19:53:35 GMT -5
The cliches were screaming! The suspension! The psych evalutation that of course Eames saves him from! The evil Chief of D's! And what was he suspended for?? And EAMES does the firing??? Who is the water carrier now?? And for all the true assholes at that!!!!! Why is Bobby the only one out of uniform in the beginning? To show he is a rebel?? And of course he is alone at home when he needs an alibi. YET ANOTHER CLICHE. Walgreens could not organize a group of ants to a Hershey bar. Zach is quirky and Serena good at languages? Great! Two people to do the job of one! The only thing I liked was the kiss-long, firm, mushy, and the hug. For once they did each other and (me) justice. I was afraid I would lose the momentum to get my LOCI tshirt lettered with something snarky but I just dropped it off at the printer's now! I felt incredibly manipulated, used, and drop kicked along with the ending- and you'd think I'd had a good time!!! Thanks for the memories USA! Love ya, MJ! |
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Post by outerbankschick on Apr 7, 2010 19:55:27 GMT -5
QFC...check your mail, hon. I don't know if it'll help but I did do another small analysis after giving that scene a second viewing.
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Post by quietfireca on Apr 7, 2010 20:01:24 GMT -5
I'm confused. Goren is fired for getting physical with a perp. Something that Elliot Stabler does to every rapist/child molester he encounters during an investigation. Oh, no kidding, Donna! I just shook my head. All part of the set up to make it easier to position Eames for firing him. |
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Post by quietfireca on Apr 7, 2010 20:02:49 GMT -5
You know, there's always fanfic to rewrite the endings...(G) I've already indulged. Patcat (yes, I write fanfic. Yes, I'm embarrassed.) Can you write non-fiction Patcat? I'd love to see a letter or three for the Goren/Eames/Ross binders! |
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Post by quietfireca on Apr 7, 2010 20:10:53 GMT -5
QFC...check your mail, hon. I don't know if it'll help but I did do another small analysis after giving that scene a second viewing. Got it, with great thanks OBC! Your thought that when he walked out of "her" office he didn't know she was going to quit, helped a lot. You're right, he wouldn't have known what the new "relationship" was if she stayed on as Captain. Although she did say right off the bat that it wouldn't be for long. lol! That was an understatement! |
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What a way to just fizzle out.
