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Post by Moonbeam on Feb 3, 2011 9:58:20 GMT -5
You bring up a valid point idget. All this talk about undercover work! I had a dream last night that Goren went undercover as an evangelical minister. Of course 95% percent of the congregants were female.
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angua
Detective
Posts: 281
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Post by angua on Feb 3, 2011 11:12:40 GMT -5
So. The big question IMO... WHY did she stay with him? Why did she continue a partnership with him when he undermined her professionally and hurt her deeply personally? Wouldn't it have been easier for her to request a new partner, or transfer, or take the Lieutenant's exam at that time? It took a lot of faith and loyalty to stay and work through the "trust issues". :Sigh: Yes! This bugged the everloving crap out of the cynical part of me. In "reality" she would have dumped his ass faster than he could turn around, but since this is television and because they are morons who don't know relationships because THEY DON'T HAVE ANY OF THIER OWN, they don't even THINK of splitting them up for a few episodes, and then have them come back together later. It's not even ADDRESSED. STUPID!! In real life, this does not happen. Friends don't stay together. Partners don't either. In real life, she would have left him. So much for being as realistic as possible, thanks you dumbasses! Hmm. Here's an idea. Maybe she did shoot him, he's dead, and this is all in her head!
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Post by skittles4me on Feb 3, 2011 16:55:35 GMT -5
LOL! They had to stay together because it was TV! Hahaha At least she was still mad at him in their next episode "Betrayed" until that lame "You're right" apology. I posted the question to see if someone had an answer I hadn't thought of. Realistically she wouldn't have stayed unless....
I don't mean to be obnoxious about being a shipper (because I seem to be the only one here), but in my mind it explains a lot of what they do. I think she stayed with him because she loves him.
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Post by outerbankschick on Feb 3, 2011 22:56:54 GMT -5
Okay...so I'll jump in about why she stayed. Keep in mind, I'm not a shipper, so it's coming from that POV...
If you care for someone, if you are friends and partners for eight years, you don't dump them for a mistake. He didn't do what he did to hurt her purposely, and I think after she came down off her mad, she understood that.
See, I just don't believe that it is unrealistic for them to stay together. They are loyal to each other. Even his keeping the undercover work from her was not being disloyal. On the one hand, he didn't want to put her in danger by putting her in the middle, or himself for that matter. The more people in the loop, the greater the chances are of his true mission being exposed. And on the other hand...he was afraid.
I think we really need to think about the reality of Bobby's situation. He was dangling by a thread with the department. He has been on suspension for months, with no paycheck. Not only does he need his job back for the paycheck, he needs it for his sanity. Recall what he said at the end of the epi "Gone" - "See, that's what happens when you keep someone from doing what they do best. It makes them insane."
For years, Bobby had two things taking up his time...his job and his mother. His mother died...he had only his job. Then he lost that because of what he did at Tates...and for six months he was on eggshells and nails, trying to get it back. He had nothing, and the undercover job gave him the promise of getting his job back. He adhered to the Chief's order because he didn't want to do even one small thing to upset the applecart.
So...Alex had a right to be mad. And she let him have it. He also was right, in following the rules. They were both right. And yet, they were both wrong. He could have told her...she would have kept it quiet. But he was too afraid to fall off the tightrope if he told her. She could have given him the benefit of the doubt and tried to understand why he didn't tell her, but she was too pissed off, and too upset because she nearly killed him. She just reacted.
It's entirely right that they stayed partnered up and worked it out. That is what you do in life. You don't cut and run when there's trouble. You stick by the people you care about...even when they make you spitting mad.
I also don't see him not telling her as a betrayal of her trust. It didn't breach her trust because he didn't give her this information. She may have felt as though he didn't trust her enough to let her in on it...but that is not the same thing. And Alex also needed to understand that the Chief didn't want her in on it...and if she had been thinking clearly, she would have understood immediately that Moran did it on purpose, to drive a wedge between her and Bobby. To stick it to Bobby one more time, and using his partner to do it. Just like he did in Loyalty.
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heikimikey
Silver Shield Investigator
Communication Junkie
Posts: 100
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Post by heikimikey on Feb 6, 2011 13:43:53 GMT -5
THANK YOU, OBC! Your words are my sentiments exactly.
I always felt that Eames overreacted. I mean, she is the one with a life outside work, a family, a decent career - no-one ever doubted her or gave her a hard time for being Goren's partner, everything that went wrong was always his fault entirely. I never understood how she could not understand that his profession is all that keeps him alive.
On the other side, this is one of the few times she did, in my opinion, actually show how much she cares for him. If that wouldn't have been the case, she probably would have been mad at the Chief for not warning her that another detective (any detective) possibly was in that room. But she was mad at Bobby, because she could have shot HIM, not "just any detective".
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Post by maherjunkie on Feb 6, 2011 13:53:19 GMT -5
We should form a club, "The Eames is not God" union. She completely emasculated in the following episode, which is not a surprise from her previous disposition.
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Post by skittles4me on Feb 6, 2011 14:40:17 GMT -5
OBC, Heikimikey, I politely agree to disagree. Actually I do agree with you- I just add a little more of a twist! LOCI is such a smart, sophisticated, subtle show. Viewing it through my rose colored shippy goggles, looking for "tells of the heart", is just another element that makes it enjoyable for me. I do agree with your reasons why...Alex is the ultimate professional and tries to do "the right thing" in most situations. I just see more, that is, a deeper emotional layer. You are right- Bobby did not betray her trust but she FELT like he did. So I see her staying as being shippy. Just as I see her leaving in "Loyalty" to be more than a matter of principle. She stayed for love...she left for love...IMO Please don't think I'm being disrespectful of anyone else's opinion- There is no right or wrong. I'm just sharing how I watch the show and find it entertaining. ;D I think it is great fun discussing LOCI with other people who love it and can point out different ideas or things that I might not have noticed! peace!
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Post by jeffan on Feb 6, 2011 15:14:20 GMT -5
Oh - I agree that she loves him and he loves her but but not romantically.
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angua
Detective
Posts: 281
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Post by angua on Apr 6, 2011 14:57:26 GMT -5
After some soul-searching, I have decided that I have changed my position on why she stays with him--I'm still not a shipper, but I believe that sometimes, if you're really lucky, you do get a friend who will stick with you no matter what. It doesn't happen often, and I think that Bobby had doubts about whether it had really happened to him. That's one reason I think he kept ker in the dark; he was TESTING her. It's like he's a little kid with his parents, "Will you love me if I do this? Will you really still love me?" It's immature, but in the wake of losing his mother and estranging his brother, I do think that deep down, he was testing how far she was willing to go with him, how much she was willing to put up with. It's been an idea I've had for a while, and it makes me want to hug him even as much as it exasperates me, because it is very selfish, very childish--and very human.
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Post by maherjunkie on Apr 6, 2011 15:27:52 GMT -5
Maybe he was just following orders-because he had no choice.
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Post by skittles4me on Apr 6, 2011 17:20:21 GMT -5
IDK...I can't see Bobby putting that much thought into testing someone emotionally. I think he had tunnel vision and just saw his badge at the end. And as to why Alex stayed, I haven't changed my mind from my earlier post. It would take something much deeper than friendship to weather that storm! She stayed because she loves him (like that). It's the same reason she turned in her badge and her gun at the end of "Loyalty". You don't quit your job for a platonic friend either! Stayed for love in "Purgatory"= left for love in "Loyalty"
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Post by maherjunkie on Apr 10, 2011 11:44:41 GMT -5
I think she got tired of the politics involved in the precinct! I might quit if they ran my friend into the ground repeatedly.
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Leonore
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 145
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Post by Leonore on Aug 15, 2011 19:05:53 GMT -5
Watched Purgatory again this morning. I so appreciate this episode! The thing that always is telling for me in this episode is the comparison of the two partnerships: Goren/Eames and Stoat/Melago. What they do to and for each other and at the end where Eames has to go up against Melago and Bobby takes on Stoat. Then finally Goren and Eames have to face each other. Just beautifully done!
I think Eames is angry at the end because she saw what happened to Melago (going over the cliff with her partner), though I do think Goren was really trying to keep her out of it because of the trouble she got into over the Tate undercover thing. She was written up over that escapade!
Remember, Goren tries to warn Stoat off early in the investigation and at the end he tells Stoat that he is nothing like him. If Stoat's had kept his partner out of his dealings Melago would have been in the clear.
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Post by skittles4me on Aug 27, 2011 0:49:39 GMT -5
Leonore, I really like your comparison of the Goren/Eames and Stoat/Milago partnerships. I always imagined G/E dressed in white with little halos and S/M in red devil suits, horns and pitchforks included! Why do you think Eames was angry about Milago being dragged down by her partner? Milago was responsible for herself and her poor decisions to participate in Testarosa's business. Or did you mean that Eames was angry with Stoat? There is something that I can't figure out with this episode. I don't understand Bobby when he tells Eames that he was protecting her by not telling her he was undercover. Protecting her from what? From knowing that she was going to be pointing a gun at her partner? He ended up hurting her! I think he was just protecting himself because he was so desperate to get his badge back. He sure wasn't being protective or having Eames' best interests in mind during Untethered!
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kacesq
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 194
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Post by kacesq on Aug 27, 2011 5:21:53 GMT -5
Skittles, I think Bobby told himself that he was protecting her; he really wasn't, I agree, but it probably made him feel better about what he was doing. He was lying to himself (paging Dr. Gyson).
Purgatory is probably my favorite S7 episode. I love Dean Winters as Stoat, I love Bobby's quiet desperation, and I love Eames' eruption at the end. I think Bobby needed to hear that - a lot of his wounds were self-inflicted.
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