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Post by skittles4me on Mar 20, 2011 16:11:22 GMT -5
In the Episode discussion “Last Rites” I stated that the character of Alex Eames had feminist moments. When I say “feminist” I mean a person who advocates all rights for women equal to those of men, and in Alex’s situation, especially respect and opportunities in the workplace. Let me start by saying I LOVE ALEX EAMES!!! Her character is strong yet she certainly has feelings, she strives to do the right thing and go “by the book” yet is compassionate, she is tough, brave, and self-confident yet unselfish (surrogate mom!). She is carrying on the family tradition of police work from her dad, Johnny Eames. Johnny, by the way, got into trouble “double dipping”- that is- drawing a simultaneous pension and a paycheck from the city. He had to pay back a large sum. This is somewhat of a thorn in Alex’s side and is even more pressure on her to “do the right thing”. Throughout the series, Alex has had to deal with the attitudes of others and difficulty of being a woman and a cop. She is an officer first, but we get some insight into her feelings. The following are “feminist moments” and why I think she is all that and a box of Cracker Jacks:The first example is in the “The Third Horseman”. IMO Alex has very strong feelings about the whole abortion issue and demands a response from Bobby. The man with the website asks Bobby “You take orders from that woman?” She plays down her femininity at work, but uses it in “Jones” to reveal Henry Talbot’s sleaziness to his wife. And may I respectfully say she does look good in those sleeveless tops! In “Baggage” Alex really identifies with Jenny, the victim who had been harassed. She is disgusted that Jenny’s co-workers hung out together in a strip club and remarked that Jenny wouldn’t feel comfortable hanging out with them there. Bobby (to get Keith to talk) refers to his partner as “hostile” and says the case is bringing out the “feminist” in her. Alex talks about discussing her work problems with her dad. I got the feeling from this one that Alex had to deal with some of that kind of thing too. (One of those subtle, subtext things they give us) This is just funny and shows that having a female partner is an advantage! In “Cold Comfort”, Bobby is reconstructing the crime in the ladies room and says “She would have put her purse on the floor.” Alex says “No, she would have put it on the hook.” Bobby says “But the thief could reach over the door and grab it- she put it on the floor”. Alex shook her head “No, she hung it on the hook.” Bobby looks at her and says “Oh. Girl thing”. Alex smiles and nods. LOL Cute! In “The Pardoner’s Tale”, “Cherry Red” and “Zoonotic” we learn that Alex loves cars. She has a tom-boy streak. She also knows fashion (“Yesterday”) so she can be a girly-girl too! In “Undaunted Mettle” she reveals that she is a surrogate mom for her sister. This is such a selfless act of love- made me love her more! Sniff sniff…. In “The Posthumous Collection” she seemed to have little patience with the damsel in distress notion. “Sex Club”. The Honey’s visit at 1 PP. Alex’s demeanor. Need I say more? “Ex-Stasis”- Alex is clearly bothered that the man who donated his kidney to a child- advocate social worker didn’t think a stay-at-home mom was worthy of a donated organ. “Grow”- Gwen’s dad says that it is terrible for a homicide detective, especially a woman, to think that he would harm his child. In “Prisoner” the Construction worker says “Your lab boys are pretty smart”. Alex replies “There are lab girls too”. She is clearly disgusted that the warden said “There are 2 kinds of wives, mutts and show-dogs”, and also when he leered at her and said to Jenny “I should have never married you. I should have held out for something better!” In “Vacancy” and “Depths” Alex has no patience with the women who play helpless, giving Bobby their wide- eyed, bite- the- bottom- lip pouty look. Also in “Depths” she looks like she could shoot the guy who said Dana was “smokin’ hot, even though she was kinda old, like 28!” Grrrr I could shoot him too! In “Blind spot”, I LOVE that Alex freakin’ RESCUES HERSELF!!!! Yeah, she didn’t “hang around” helpless waiting for a man. She got herself loose, pulled the MacGyver electrical trick and saved herself. Even at the window, it was a little dog that brought help her way!!! Go girl! She rolls her eyes when Ross says he still has supermodel Kelly’s swimsuit issue and then she has to endure Kelly’s husband calling her “sweet ass” in “Siren Call”. “Masquerade” was very telling. A female rookie supposedly botched the Amberleigh Warner case and Alex said 2 years later, when she was in the police academy, the instructors were using the rookie as an example of how women were too emotional to be cops. (That must have been fun for the female students) Alex said the rookie made it harder on the rest of the women. This is a big clue that Alex conducts herself in a way that cannot be criticized or reflect badly on female cops. She considers herself an example, or representative of female cops. “Albatross” is all about a career woman, how a man is dragging her down, and the double standard a woman in a power position faces regarding career vs. family. Maureen is a strong advocate for women’s issues and Alex admires her, but Maureen lets her feelings for her husband draw her into a situation that is her downfall. Alex is so disappointed in the end. “Rocket Man” another episode loaded with subtext. A woman in a man’s job. A “discreet” affair that wasn’t. Astronaut Craig says “Women should never have been allowed into the program”. Jessica’s ex-fiancé said “You have no idea what a woman has to give up to be an astronaut”. Yet another case that disses women! When MFB said “Pretty women enjoy having their picture taken. Surely you must” to Alex in “Endgame”, I thought I could see her skin crawl! The evidence officer called Alex “Lady” in “Amends” and Bobby quickly corrected him- “you mean detective Eames”! I actually think this was him trying to show her some kindness (in his way) since he knew she was hurt by reopening Joe’s case, more than an example of a “feminist” thing. However, Bobby is sensitive to her position and goes out of his way to be respectful. More on this at the end. In “Purgatory”, Milago said there were 400 some men and 50 women when she and Alex were in the Police Academy together. Wow. In “Betrayed”, Roy was with a younger woman and Kathy a younger man. Kathy said she thought a young man would not be threatened by a strong woman, Goren said he thought Woody wanted a “younger body”. Not an issue with Roy. At times Eames is called “sweetheart”, “sweet ass”, “hot”, and “baby”. Men leer at her, her looks are commented upon (good comments and bad). IMO she plays down any girliness or overt femininity at work to avoid calling attention to the fact that she is a woman. She is all about business and respect. She is lucky that Bobby is her partner and he treats her very professionally. Ever notice how they almost never touch? Bobby touches other people, but not Eames. He has set that line in the workplace with her. I also think he calls her “Eames” all the time because it also establishes a line. She is his senior partner and he sets an example of respect. He might be the MCS “whackjob”, but I think the other detectives respect and/or fear him. How could they not with his solve record? The way he treats Eames sets a tone- if he joked around about her, acted too familiar or called her Alex, the other men would be more likely to hit on her, comment on her breasts, or pinch her ass (loose quote from a LOCI friend elsewhere!). IMO, since his mom was a single mom and his dad left, he has compassion for women and it is reflected in the way he treats them. So this is my dissertation LOL! Thanks for reading if you’ve made it this far! Much of the content is just my opinion and many quotes are paraphrased.
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Post by jeffan on Mar 21, 2011 12:43:54 GMT -5
In the Episode discussion “Last Rites” I stated that the character of Alex Eames had feminist moments. When I say “feminist” I mean a person who advocates all rights for women equal to those of men, and in Alex’s situation, especially respect and opportunities in the workplace. I’m glad you defined feminism for the purpose of your arguments as this is not a black and white area but grey. I'v only responded to the episodes I have watched and which you included in your arguments. You surprised me not using any of the Nichole Wallace episodes - maybe your saving the best to last!
I also appreciate that this is a topic for which you have great enthusiasm, so please do not think I’m trying to under-mind you when I don’t agree. There is no definitive code-of-conduct for women who advocate equality. I did enjoy reading your theories and, obviously, made it to the end.
The first example is in the “The Third Horseman”. IMO Alex has very strong feelings about the whole abortion issue and demands a response from Bobby. I didn’t get this impression. If anything, she came across as someone who hadn’t fully made up her mind one way or the other. If she has such strong feelings, why was she so persistent for Bobby to give her his opinion. It came across as if she needed his reassurance that her opinion, if she had one, was the right one. Not a feminist moment.
She plays down her femininity at work, but uses it in “Jones” to reveal Henry Talbot’s sleaziness to his wife. There is no feminist dress code. Yes, she did agree to take part in the honey-trap and that signifies to me a woman who has no issues with using her sexuality in the work-place (specifically to catch a criminal) even though she had to be persuaded by her male colleagues. Feminist moment.
This is just funny and shows that having a female partner is an advantage! In “Cold Comfort”, Bobby is reconstructing the crime in the ladies room and says “She would have put her purse on the floor.” Alex says “No, she would have put it on the hook.” Bobby says “But the thief could reach over the door and grab it- she put it on the floor”. Alex shook her head “No, she hung it on the hook.” Bobby looks at her and says “Oh. Girl thing”. Alex smiles and nods. LOL Cute! I like this episode but don’t see a feminist moment. It is exactly as Bobby’s sates - “a girl thing” which was appropriate for the scene.
In “The Pardoner’s Tale”, “Cherry Red” and “Zoonotic” we learn that Alex loves cars. She has a tom-boy streak. She also knows fashion (“Yesterday”) so she can be a girly-girl too! A tom-boy streak does not necessarily denote feminist tendencies. Yes, girly-girly moments do not disqualify feminist predispositions.
“Sex Club”. The Honey’s visit at 1 PP. Alex’s demeanor. Need I say more? If you want to use body-language as an argument, yes, feminist moment.
“Ex-Stasis”- Alex is clearly bothered that the man who donated his kidney to a child- advocate social worker didn’t think a stay-at-home mom was worthy of a donated organ. I agree, feminist moment. A stay-at-home mom doesn’t discount her from being a feminist.
In “Prisoner” the Construction worker says “Your lab boys are pretty smart”. Alex replies “There are lab girls too”. Definitely a feminist moment.
In “Vacancy” and “Depths” Alex has no patience with the women who play helpless, giving Bobby their wide- eyed, bite- the- bottom- lip pouty look. Maybe a bit of - don’t step in my territory - you should use this in your shipping argument.
In “Blind spot”, I LOVE that Alex freakin’ RESCUES HERSELF!!!! Yeah, she didn’t “hang around” helpless waiting for a man. She got herself loose, pulled the MacGyver electrical trick and saved herself. Even at the window, it was a little dog that brought help her way!!! Go girl! Yes, it was good to see Alex successfully free herself, but I thought that more self-preservation rather than a feminist moment.
She rolls her eyes when Ross says he still has supermodel Kelly’s swimsuit issue and then she has to endure Kelly’s husband calling her “sweet ass” in “Siren Call”. Many women like to look at photos of attractive men and especially ones they are attracted to - you only have to look at blogs! Rolling eyes and tolerating sexist comments is not a feminist moment.
“Masquerade” was very telling. A female rookie supposedly botched the Amberleigh Warner case and Alex said 2 years later, when she was in the police academy, the instructors were using the rookie as an example of how women were too emotional to be cops. (That must have been fun for the female students) Alex said the rookie made it harder on the rest of the women. This is a big clue that Alex conducts herself in a way that cannot be criticized or reflect badly on female cops. She considers herself an example, or representative of female cops. I think this a more a sexism awareness in her place of work rather than a feminist moment. She is lucky that Bobby is her partner and he treats her very professionally. Ever notice how they almost never touch? Bobby touches other people, but not Eames. He has set that line in the workplace with her. I also think he calls her “Eames” all the time because it also establishes a line. She is his senior partner and he sets an example of respect. He might be the MCS “whackjob”, but I think the other detectives respect and/or fear him. How could they not with his solve record? The way he treats Eames sets a tone- if he joked around about her, acted too familiar or called her Alex, the other men would be more likely to hit on her, comment on her breasts, or pinch her ass (loose quote from a LOCI friend elsewhere!). IMO, since his mom was a single mom and his dad left, he has compassion for women and it is reflected in the way he treats them. With all due respect, Skittles, you are not making a good argument here that Alex has feminist tendencies. Surely, she herself should establish her own boundaries not her male colleage?
If anyone behaved in the way you described above towards their work colleagues, they would be reprimanded or even sacked. This applies to both genders!
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Post by maherjunkie on Mar 21, 2011 13:57:24 GMT -5
This thread feels like a game show; "Feminist or Not?" I agree with most of Jeffan's analysis though I think Eames was strong on abortion rights.
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Post by jeffan on Mar 21, 2011 14:14:29 GMT -5
LOL - I'm in!
Thank you and I agree, but my point was why was she so insistent on getting Bobby's opinion on the subject if her feelings were so strong? I appreciate that she values his opinion, but he had ducked and dived in not giving her a response She came across as if she needed his reassurance.
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Post by maherjunkie on Mar 21, 2011 14:25:07 GMT -5
I think she just wanted to know where she he stood, and hoped he agreed with her.
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Post by jeffan on Mar 21, 2011 14:35:00 GMT -5
That makes sense given the nature of the case they were assigned.
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Post by maherjunkie on Mar 21, 2011 15:14:23 GMT -5
I will say I thought Bishop and Wheeler and boring old Barek suited this model as well.
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Post by idget on Mar 21, 2011 23:13:09 GMT -5
I always thought perhaps Eames had had an abortion in the past and that was why she was so emotional about it. Still needing reassurance from people she likes and respects that abortion is an acceptable option. I have to disagree with you Jeffan about sexism awareness and feminism being mutually exclusive, if anything I think it is one of the more positive results that feminism has brought attention too.
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Post by skittles4me on Mar 22, 2011 0:39:54 GMT -5
In the Episode discussion “Last Rites” I stated that the character of Alex Eames had feminist moments. When I say “feminist” I mean a person who advocates all rights for women equal to those of men, and in Alex’s situation, especially respect and opportunities in the workplace.I’m glad you defined feminism for the purpose of your arguments as this is not a black and white area but grey. I'v only responded to the episodes I have watched and which you included in your arguments. You surprised me not using any of the Nichole Wallace episodes - maybe your saving the best to last! I also appreciate that this is a topic for which you have great enthusiasm, so please do not think I’m trying to under-mind you when I don’t agree. There is no definitive code-of-conduct for women who advocate equality. I did enjoy reading your theories and, obviously, made it to the end. The first example is in the “The Third Horseman”. IMO Alex has very strong feelings about the whole abortion issue and demands a response from Bobby.I didn’t get this impression. If anything, she came across as someone who hadn’t fully made up her mind one way or the other. If she has such strong feelings, why was she so persistent for Bobby to give her his opinion. It came across as if she needed his reassurance that her opinion, if she had one, was the right one. Not a feminist moment. She plays down her femininity at work, but uses it in “Jones” to reveal Henry Talbot’s sleaziness to his wife. There is no feminist dress code. Yes, she did agree to take part in the honey-trap and that signifies to me a woman who has no issues with using her sexuality in the work-place (specifically to catch a criminal) even though she had to be persuaded by her male colleagues. Feminist moment. This is just funny and shows that having a female partner is an advantage! In “Cold Comfort”, Bobby is reconstructing the crime in the ladies room and says “She would have put her purse on the floor.” Alex says “No, she would have put it on the hook.” Bobby says “But the thief could reach over the door and grab it- she put it on the floor”. Alex shook her head “No, she hung it on the hook.” Bobby looks at her and says “Oh. Girl thing”. Alex smiles and nods. LOL Cute!I like this episode but don’t see a feminist moment. It is exactly as Bobby’s sates - “a girl thing” which was appropriate for the scene. In “The Pardoner’s Tale”, “Cherry Red” and “Zoonotic” we learn that Alex loves cars. She has a tom-boy streak. She also knows fashion (“Yesterday”) so she can be a girly-girl too!A tom-boy streak does not necessarily denote feminist tendencies. Yes, girly-girly moments do not disqualify feminist predispositions. “Sex Club”. The Honey’s visit at 1 PP. Alex’s demeanor. Need I say more?If you want to use body-language as an argument, yes, feminist moment. “Ex-Stasis”- Alex is clearly bothered that the man who donated his kidney to a child- advocate social worker didn’t think a stay-at-home mom was worthy of a donated organ.I agree, feminist moment. A stay-at-home mom doesn’t discount her from being a feminist. In “Prisoner” the Construction worker says “Your lab boys are pretty smart”. Alex replies “There are lab girls too”. Definitely a feminist moment. In “Vacancy” and “Depths” Alex has no patience with the women who play helpless, giving Bobby their wide- eyed, bite- the- bottom- lip pouty look.Maybe a bit of - don’t step in my territory - you should use this in your shipping argument. In “Blind spot”, I LOVE that Alex freakin’ RESCUES HERSELF!!!! Yeah, she didn’t “hang around” helpless waiting for a man. She got herself loose, pulled the MacGyver electrical trick and saved herself. Even at the window, it was a little dog that brought help her way!!! Go girl!Yes, it was good to see Alex successfully free herself, but I thought that more self-preservation rather than a feminist moment. She rolls her eyes when Ross says he still has supermodel Kelly’s swimsuit issue and then she has to endure Kelly’s husband calling her “sweet ass” in “Siren Call”. Many women like to look at photos of attractive men and especially ones they are attracted to - you only have to look at blogs! Rolling eyes and tolerating sexist comments is not a feminist moment. “Masquerade” was very telling. A female rookie supposedly botched the Amberleigh Warner case and Alex said 2 years later, when she was in the police academy, the instructors were using the rookie as an example of how women were too emotional to be cops. (That must have been fun for the female students) Alex said the rookie made it harder on the rest of the women. This is a big clue that Alex conducts herself in a way that cannot be criticized or reflect badly on female cops. She considers herself an example, or representative of female cops.I think this a more a sexism awareness in her place of work rather than a feminist moment. She is lucky that Bobby is her partner and he treats her very professionally. Ever notice how they almost never touch? Bobby touches other people, but not Eames. He has set that line in the workplace with her. I also think he calls her “Eames” all the time because it also establishes a line. She is his senior partner and he sets an example of respect. He might be the MCS “whackjob”, but I think the other detectives respect and/or fear him. How could they not with his solve record? The way he treats Eames sets a tone- if he joked around about her, acted too familiar or called her Alex, the other men would be more likely to hit on her, comment on her breasts, or pinch her ass (loose quote from a LOCI friend elsewhere!). IMO, since his mom was a single mom and his dad left, he has compassion for women and it is reflected in the way he treats them.With all due respect, Skittles, you are not making a good argument here that Alex has feminist tendencies. Surely, she herself should establish her own boundaries not her male colleage? If anyone behaved in the way you described above towards their work colleagues, they would be reprimanded or even sacked. This applies to both genders! I think maybe I wasn’t very clear about some of my points. Yes, my definition of “feminist”, for lack of a better word, is rather grey. Maybe “you go girl” would be another way to say it? LOL I did mean it in this instance as someone who is an advocate for women and their issues. See the dictionary.com definition. However, these aren’t JUST “strong woman moments”, but “strong Alex moments” too. IMO. I just love and admire the character they have created in her so much! Okay, my rebuttal: Didn’t even THINK about Nicole. I really don’t like her. Maybe someone else can take her on. “The Third Horseman”- I thought Alex seemed upset because she DID have strong feelings, and asked Bobby what he thought just because she really wanted to know his POV. When I am passionate about something, I want to know what the people close to me think. Guess we just see it differently. “Jones”- Hmmm. No feminist dress code. Never thought of it like that. I was thinking that she looks more “girly” when we see her away from work and when she goes undercover. Alex definitely uses her good looks in her work- she used to go undercover in “fur coats and halter tops” in vice according to “The Inside Man”. “Cold Comfort”- I brought up the “girl thing” just because it was cute and funny. I didn’t actually have a point. Just wanted to make people smile. Although, if Bobby wasn’t lucky enough to have a female partner, he might go thru life thinking that women put their purses on the floor in public restrooms! (That was supposed to be funny too!) The tom-boy and girly-girl comments were interesting observations IMO and a little more insight into the character of Alex. Nope. No feminist point here. I HAVE thought about the shippiness factor in “Vacancy” and “Depths”. Great spy with a shippy eye Jeffan! However, I still think Alex has no patience with “poor me, some big -strong- man -take- care -of- me” attitudes! “Blindspot”- You’re right. Definitely self-preservation. I was remarking on her awesomeness!!! Also, I think it is great that the writers took that road instead of having Bobby find her, … Oh...they are running away from Sebastian who has big pinking shears… she falls and breaks her ankle but Bobby picks her up and throws her over his shoulder… he rescues her.... No, the writers kept Alex in character. She saved herself!!! In “Siren Call”, it isn’t a feminist moment, but rather examples of situations that might make a woman uncomfortable working in an environment with mostly men. I admit, this is a stretch, but I’m going by her facial expressions. Actually, I took a Non-Verbal Communication class in college and learned that 90% of our communication is thru body language. I'll have to see if I can dig up the name of my old textbook.Women do look at people whom they find attractive, but it is different. You just don’t see women acting like the men in the scene with the “Honeys” or in “Tru Love” when all the men gathered to watch the victim’s homemade porn with Wheeler standing right there. Can you imagine Eames, Wheeler, Rodgers, and boring old Barrek (LOL Maherjunkie) standing around, with male co-workers present, watching porn? No, they wait until Friday night when they go to Bishop’s for girl’s night and do tequila shots. “Masquerade”- You’re right. It is more an awareness of sexism in the workplace. Also something that would make the female cops uncomfortable. And the part about Bobby…. Of course Alex sets her own boundaries and no one better pinch her! (Sometimes I use hyperbole to emphasize my point) But I can imagine some guys making a remark about her rack or coming on to her. I just think having Bobby for a partner would make a jerk think twice about being disrespectful toward her, and that would contribute to a more pleasant work environment for Alex. And Jeffan, you’re right again; it isn’t a “feminist” way of thinking. But hey, they're partners...he's got her back. I also agree that people who treat their co-workers disrespectfully should have consequences! I feel that I should add that I don't label myself a "feminist", but I do believe that everyone should be treated equally with respect and sensitivity. I think men and women have some strengths and talents that are generally more gender specific and we should appreciate each other and work together. Geeeez Did that sound like an after school special or what?
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Post by jeffan on Mar 22, 2011 8:13:22 GMT -5
That idea does give a different perspective to her persistence in getting an answer to her question. It never crossed my mind but, again, makes sense.
I agree that sexism awareness and feminism are inclusive so I’ll scrub my comment that this was not a feminist moment.
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Post by skittles4me on Mar 22, 2011 8:27:34 GMT -5
This thread feels like a game show; "Feminist or Not?" I agree with most of Jeffan's analysis though I think Eames was strong on abortion rights. DOINK DOINK!!! And Jeffan has made it to our bonus round... Please don't make me think too hard! I get a little punchy when I haven't had much sleep
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Post by jeffan on Mar 22, 2011 8:28:18 GMT -5
I think maybe I wasn’t very clear about some of my points. Yes, my definition of “feminist”, for lack of a better word, is rather grey. Maybe “you go girl” would be another way to say it? Feminism is an ideology which is extremely difficult to pin down and there is no single definition. I agree that “You go girl” is as good a slogan as any.
Didn’t even THINK about Nicole. I really don’t like her. Maybe someone else can take her on. LOL - she is one of my favourite characters!
“The Third Horseman”- I thought Alex seemed upset because she DID have strong feelings, and asked Bobby what he thought just because she really wanted to know his POV. When I am passionate about something, I want to know what the people close to me think. Guess we just see it differently. Yep, and I appreciate your sentiments. Both MJ and Idjet have also added their thoughts and, also bearing your thoughts in mind, I’ve shifted my opinion.
“Cold Comfort”- I brought up the “girl thing” just because it was cute and funny. I didn’t actually have a point. Just wanted to make people smile. Although, if Bobby wasn’t lucky enough to have a female partner, he might go thru life thinking that women put their purses on the floor in public restrooms! (That was supposed to be funny too!) You succeeded as it did make me smile.
I HAVE thought about the shippiness factor in “Vacancy” and “Depths”. Great spy with a shippy eye Jeffan! However, I still think Alex has no patience with “poor me, some big -strong- man -take- care -of- me” attitudes! I’m no shipper but, if I was, I’d definitely start with the “Nelda” episode - forgotten the title.
“Blindspot”- You’re right. Definitely self-preservation. I was remarking on her awesomeness!!! Also, I think it is great that the writers took that road instead of having Bobby find her, …Oh...they are running away from Sebastian who has big pinking shears… she falls and breaks her ankle but Bobby picks her up and throws her over his shoulder… he rescues her.... No, the writers kept Alex in character. She saved herself!!! LOL - I’d liked to have seen that in the way you describe! Seriously, it would have been against type so I agree.
In “Siren Call”, it isn’t a feminist moment, but rather examples of situations that might make a woman uncomfortable working in an environment with mostly men. I admit, this is a stretch, but I’m going by her facial expressions. Actually, I took a Non-Verbal Communication class in college and learned that 90% of our communication is thru body language. I'll have to see if I can dig up the name of my old textbook. Interesting and good for you. Yes, we are discussing issues as seen through the medium of television so body-language interpretations are perfectly valid as long as contextualization accompany the visual effects. Women do look at people whom they find attractive, but it is different. You just don’t see women acting like the men in the scene with the “Honeys” or in “Tru Love” when all the men gathered to watch the victim’s homemade porn with Wheeler standing right there. Can you imagine Eames, Wheeler, Rodgers, and boring old Barrek (LOL Maherjunkie) standing around, with male co-workers present, watching porn? No, they wait until Friday night when they go to Bishop’s for girl’s night and do tequila shots. Erm, we’re never going to agree.
And the part about Bobby…. Of course Alex sets her own boundaries and no one better pinch her! (Sometimes I use hyperbole to emphasize my point) But I can imagine some guys making a remark about her rack or coming on to her. I just think having Bobby for a partner would make a jerk think twice about being disrespectful toward her, and that would contribute to a more pleasant work environment for Alex. And Jeffan, you’re right again; it isn’t a “feminist” way of thinking. But hey, they're partners...he's got her back. Again, we’re never going to agree but I appreciate your opinion.
I feel that I should add that I don't label myself a "feminist", but I do believe that everyone should be treated equally with respect and sensitivity. I think men and women have some strengths and talents that are generally more gender specific and we should appreciate each other and work together. Geeeez Did that sound like an after school special or what? I liked it and would never deny that there are literally “gender specifics“, it’s gender stereotyping I find objectionable and you used the “damsel in distress” example which is a good case in point. My problem with the Alex Eames characterisation is that she does hang onto the coat-tails of her male partner. Ok, it’s a television show and the main character is Bobby Goren, but it would have been noteworthy to see Alex Eames (also a main character) visibly leading the case rather than, supposedly, invisibly. After all, it would have been consistent with the character‘s feminist moments!
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Post by skittles4me on Mar 22, 2011 11:12:24 GMT -5
Thanks for playing! I HAVE thought about the shippiness factor in “Vacancy” and “Depths”. Great spy with a shippy eye Jeffan! However, I still think Alex has no patience with “poor me, some big -strong- man -take- care -of- me” attitudes! I’m no shipper but, if I was, I’d definitely start with the “Nelda” episode - forgotten the title. Ha Ha! I knew you wouldn't let that slide! The Nelda episode is "Semi-detached". “Blindspot”- You’re right. Definitely self-preservation. I was remarking on her awesomeness!!! Also, I think it is great that the writers took that road instead of having Bobby find her, …Oh...they are running away from Sebastian who has big pinking shears… she falls and breaks her ankle but Bobby picks her up and throws her over his shoulder… he rescues her.... No, the writers kept Alex in character. She saved herself!!! LOL - I’d liked to have seen that in the way you describe! Seriously, it would have been against type so I agree.Yes, she would be wearing a super short skirt and she would breathlessly cry "Bobby oh Bobby- At last you are here..." (Excuse me. I just made myself sick.)In “Siren Call”, it isn’t a feminist moment, but rather examples of situations that might make a woman uncomfortable working in an environment with mostly men. I admit, this is a stretch, but I’m going by her facial expressions. Actually, I took a Non-Verbal Communication class in college and learned that 90% of our communication is thru body language. I'll have to see if I can dig up the name of my old textbook. Interesting and good for you. Yes, we are discussing issues as seen through the medium of television so body-language interpretations are perfectly valid as long as contextualization accompany the visual effects.I think the name of the book was Introduction to Nonverbal Communication by Joan Gorham. It has been a long time so I could be wrong. That 90% thing is about the only specific thing I remember from that class, but it made an impression on me! Women do look at people whom they find attractive, but it is different. You just don’t see women acting like the men in the scene with the “Honeys” or in “Tru Love” when all the men gathered to watch the victim’s homemade porn with Wheeler standing right there. Can you imagine Eames, Wheeler, Rodgers, and boring old Barrek (LOL Maherjunkie) standing around, with male co-workers present, watching porn? No, they wait until Friday night when they go to Bishop’s for girl’s night and do tequila shots. Erm, we’re never going to agree. I appreciate your point of view and I shouldn't make absolute statements like that. I'll change it to " I personally just can't see the MCS women acting like the men...." But, yeah, I respectfully agree to disagree here. I feel that I should add that I don't label myself a "feminist", but I do believe that everyone should be treated equally with respect and sensitivity. I think men and women have some strengths and talents that are generally more gender specific and we should appreciate each other and work together. Geeeez Did that sound like an after school special or what? I liked it and would never deny that there are literally “gender specifics“, it’s gender stereotyping I find objectionable and you used the “damsel in distress” example which is a good case in point. My problem with the Alex Eames characterisation is that she does hang onto the coat-tails of her male partner. Ok, it’s a television show and the main character is Bobby Goren, but it would have been noteworthy to see Alex Eames (also a main character) visibly leading the case rather than, supposedly, invisibly. After all, it would have been consistent with the character‘s feminist moments!I would LOVE to see Alex take the lead! There is an episode of L & O SVU in which Elliot is tied up and gagged at the end and Olivia uses her wits, gets into the perps head, and saves her partner and herself! (Zebra). A similar episode like that with Eames would be so awesome!
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Post by maherjunkie on Mar 22, 2011 12:25:13 GMT -5
In “Cold Comfort”, Bobby is reconstructing the crime in the ladies room and says “She would have put her purse on the floor.” Alex says “No, she would have put it on the hook.” Bobby says “But the thief could reach over the door and grab it- she put it on the floor”. Alex shook her head “No, she hung it on the hook.” Bobby looks at her and says “Oh. Girl thing”. Alex smiles and nods. I have never gotten this. I just don't think of Alex as schooled on "girl things" because I just see her as too tomboyish to really pay attention to that language. Maybe there is something wrong with me but I don't care if a bag or wallet is on the floor; there must be other women who share this same trait. “Grow”- Gwen’s dad says that it is terrible for a homicide detective, especially a woman, to think that he would harm his child. The father is retarded. Infanticide is almost always committed by women except in this instance. Ex: My beloved Nicole. Still needing reassurance from people she likes and respects that abortion is an acceptable option. I have to disagree with you Jeffan about sexism awareness and feminism being mutually exclusive, if anything I think it is one of the more positive results that feminism has brought attention too. Are you saying there are negatives? Blindspot”- You’re right. Definitely self-preservation. I was remarking on her awesomeness!!! Also, I think it is great that the writers took that road instead of having Bobby find her, …Oh...they are running away from Sebastian who has big pinking shears… she falls and breaks her ankle but Bobby picks her up and throws her over his shoulder… he rescues her.... No, the writers kept Alex in character. She saved herself!!! LOL - I’d liked to have seen that in the way you describe! Seriously, it would have been against type so I agree. Yes, she would be wearing a super short skirt and she would breathlessly cry "Bobby oh Bobby- At last you are here..." (Excuse me. I just made myself sick.)
I would have kicked his ass and then cried "Bobby/Logan save me!" After which I would run into their arms making it a double win. Women do look at people whom they find attractive, but it is different. You just don’t see women acting like the men in the scene with the “Honeys” or in “Tru Love” when all the men gathered to watch the victim’s homemade porn with Wheeler standing right there. Can you imagine Eames, Wheeler, Rodgers, and boring old Barrek (LOL Maherjunkie) standing around, with male co-workers present, watching porn? No, they wait until Friday night when they go to Bishop’s for girl’s night and do tequila shots.
If movie star X walked into our workplaces we'd be staring. The only reason we wouldn't watch porn at work is because we'd be fired. “The Third Horseman”- I thought Alex seemed upset because she DID have strong feelings, and asked Bobby what he thought just because she really wanted to know his POV. When I am passionate about something, I want to know what the people close to me think. Guess we just see it differently. Yep, and I appreciate your sentiments. Both MJ and Idjet have also added their thoughts and, also bearing your thoughts in mind, I’ve shifted my opinion.
It's about time somebody asked us. I don't find feminism a mystery. One definition is it's what separates you from a doormat. It does piss me off we cannot acknowledge ANY DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN. For instance, I am still waiting for that female cable woman to come to my house. And Skitt, you sound like one to me.
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Post by jeffan on Mar 22, 2011 14:24:45 GMT -5
Yes, Skittles, I’m still playing - I want the bonus prize! I would LOVE to see Alex take the lead! There is an episode of L & O SVU in which Elliot is tied up and gagged at the end and Olivia uses her wits, gets into the perps head, and saves her partner and herself! (Zebra). A similar episode like that with Eames would be so awesome! I agree but wouldn't hold my breath we'll ever get to see such a scene. I have never gotten this. I just don't think of Alex as schooled on "girl things" because I just see her as too tomboyish to really pay attention to that language. Maybe there is something wrong with me but I don't care if a bag or wallet is on the floor; there must be other women who share this same trait.Probably do MJ, but the first thing I look for when I go into a public loo is a hook on the door. I’ve even balanced my bag on the tissue holder rather than place it on the floor. I would have kicked his ass and then cried "Bobby/Logan save me!" After which I would run into their arms making it a double win.I would add a certain some else and made it a treble win! If movie star X walked into our workplaces we'd be staring. The only reason we wouldn't watch porn at work is because we'd be fired.LOL ,MJ, I even go on guarded mode when I access this site in work. I’m just glad I get a knock on my door before someone enters. I don't find feminism a mystery. One definition is it's what separates you from a doormat. It does piss me off we cannot acknowledge ANY DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN. For instance, I am still waiting for that female cable woman to come to my house.It’s not a mystery - it is as you’ve basically expressed it but there are more complex arguments. I’ve actually had a female plumber come to my house and she didn’t want a cup of tea!
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