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Post by darmok on Apr 30, 2004 15:45:22 GMT -5
Since I saw this the first time, I've thought that Connie would make a better "arch enemy" for Goren than E-N. He's young, but that only makes him more dangerous because "he's learning" and will gain even more experience in manipulating others as he grows older. They should bring him back and drop the E-N storyline.
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Post by Metella on Apr 30, 2004 19:01:27 GMT -5
here here
his selfishness, his tendancy to use whatever philosophy to get what he wants, his total disregard for the value of the lives of others PLUS his intelligence at such a young age ....
once again, here here.
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Rose
Rookie
Posts: 35
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Post by Rose on Apr 30, 2004 21:33:18 GMT -5
Trish...Actually I think I'm between those 2 positions... they're not just boys who were murdered, they were almost grown men, if not already 18, who treated people very badly. But in my book what they did doesn't fall into the category of deserving to die. Again, I favor horsewhipping. Rose the Thorny
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Post by janetcatbird on Apr 30, 2004 22:16:17 GMT -5
Well, regarding the boys who died, part of me echoes Jack McCoy: "I've been playing tiddlywinks with these punks. WHat I'd like to do is take them out to Battery Park and hang them up by the scrotum."
But like I said, part of me. One thing that concerns me is those who are judgemental. Yes, they did dispicable, horrible things, but did that give Connie the right to take their lives? Murder is murder under whatever law. I don't think anyone has that right. So what, sociopaths are OK as long as they target the bad guys? THat's a dangerous line of thinking. I may joke about "Men Who May Need Killin', Quite Frankly," but I'm not about to condone cold-blooded killings.
As to Connie being a more suitable villain--oooh. I don't think they could make him a seasonal occurence, but n a couple years when he gets out...that comment about the look at the end was right. I myself got nervous and thought "Oh no, this guy's just gonna come back." This establishment of sociopathic contempt, arrogance, and astonishing ability does make a him a much more realistic, and threatening, villain than E-N.
--Catbird
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Post by trisha on Apr 30, 2004 22:26:31 GMT -5
Let me clarify my original point: I never said Connie or the girls had any right to do what they did, or that they shouldn't be punished, just that I don't feel sorry for the boys they killed. That's all. No sympathy for people who get off on hurting other people, not from me.
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Post by Metella on May 1, 2004 6:21:52 GMT -5
I don't think Connie had those boys killed because he thought what they did was wrong and wanted to punish them. Oh my, no. So that would be a NORMAL person's look at why/how murder could be justified.
Connie directed and/or participated in the BOYS murder because it was making the bond with the girls stronger. Then Connie had the mother of one of them killed because her actions were going to cause a deeper investigation that may uncover "foul play".
Then Connie directed one of his "girls" to kill herself with a note claiming all resposibility - to take all the heat off of Connie-dearest.
All because, what? His mother is looser who is not around? Naw, because he is a nasty person & may have been less nasty with a decent mother, but he had a decent uncle, a better living situation than most people on earth & still decided to be a very naughty boy.
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Rose
Rookie
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Post by Rose on May 2, 2004 4:23:05 GMT -5
I've gotten the impression over the years that abandonment by the mother can cause a lot of rage. I don't think it "causes" someone to become a sociopath and a narcissist, but I bet if someone is at risk to go that way, it's going to put them more at risk.
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Post by trisha on May 2, 2004 13:16:58 GMT -5
I agree, Rose, as I think you already know I don't believe most sociopaths are made. Of course, having a tumultuous childhood helps. Being subjugated by another psychopath also helps. But, I personally believe that the vast majority of sociopaths were born without that essential moral compass (or soul as one might call it) for a human being to be... well, human.
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Feb 16, 2005 11:51:10 GMT -5
yes & i hate how that one girl that goren & bishop interviewed was to 'casual' about the whole thing, like losing her virginity fifty times over wasnt a big thing... argh!!! if i was a parent i wouldnt have any hair left LOL. i love how connie offers 'just the opposite' as bobby puts it. & also the slap at the end was b**chin, how bobby pushes the suspect to the breaking point.
on connie's nastiness, i dont think he 'desided' he seemed to be a sociopath (sp???) to me, at least. those kinds of people are incapable of feeling guilt, remorce or happiness for that matter, their only true 'feeling' is rage which bobby brought out of him in the final interrogation, on some level i think that he knew how connie would react to 'the truth' he would react with his true & only feeling... rage. he knew that he might very well strike out phisically against him.
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Post by E. McCoy on Nov 13, 2005 11:38:19 GMT -5
Again finally saw this episode yesterday thanks to getting S3 on DVD I really enjoyed it and don't think there was to much going on in it. There had to be a lot to get this story out in the open. Someone mentioned why Connie was not chosen as the arch enemy for Goren. I think it had to be a woman, since D. Wolf and RB have said Holmes is based on a women it reminds me of a Holmes quote: "Women are never to be trusted, not the best of them". If it were a man it would be too close to the whole Moriarty thing. I think it had to be a woman, Goren gives me the idea he kind of "likes" Nicole (yes like that), don't think him "liking" Connie would go over well with people. Just more than my 2 cents on that one. All in all I loved this episode esp. when Connie slapped Goren and he says something like "Ouch! That hurt." Classic Bobby! I think it was great and the perfect set up to bring back Connie for In the Wee Small Hours too!!
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Post by willow2tree on Nov 14, 2005 11:08:30 GMT -5
I watched this episode again after seeing the wee hours and I think Connie has definitely gotten more overtly sociopathic in prison. I can see him becoming a Charles Manson type guru in prison. He is a scary character, and the actor portrays him well.
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Post by Patcat on Nov 14, 2005 11:18:24 GMT -5
I had some hopes that Connie might find prison a difficult and eye opening experience, but it's far more likely he would find a way to use the system to his advantage. He's going to get paroled on his first try, and then head off to the West where in about five to ten years he'll make headlines with his own or his followers' doings.
The actor's name is Billy Lush, and I agree that he's splendid.
Patcat
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Post by NicoleMarie on Nov 16, 2005 20:35:59 GMT -5
I was reading the posts about dogs in "Tuxedo Hill" thread which reminded of something about this show.
Does anyone agree with me that when Bishop was holding the puppy that it was more calm and happier but, when she gave it back to Claudia, the puppy began whining and trembling? It seemed to me that the puppy was most happy when Bishop was holding it.
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Nov 17, 2005 5:30:52 GMT -5
LOL this might be rather long, i'm trying to stuff replies to several posts into one reply: You know, i wonder if Bobby saw a little of himself in Connie at first? What he reads, the way he marks books & the way he carries himself is all very Goren-like dont you guys think? It is creepy indeed, sense Bobby also had a parential figure abandon him (father) then he could have very easily turned out like connie... yikes . I do not think that connie is gay either, he's just not the 'norm' as far as teenagers go though i can see why he is so poplular with the girlies, i mean who DOESNT like an intelectual ;D? He puts the pressure on them, they're just too awestruck to see it. Bobby's line "...Unlike the girls i read the book, so dont try to con me," hinted that... at least to me. The ending scene was totally over the top! Now the real question is, do you think that Bobby knew he was going to get B***h-slapped? Did he know that he was pushing Connie over the breaking point? In response to Bobby being a loose cannon, i wouldnt even dream of using the words 'loose cannon' & 'Bobby Goren' in the same sentence. Quite the contrary, he's actually very under-control (though it doesnt always seem that way) On the other hand, the words 'Loose cannon' & 'Mike Logan' go very well together (dont get me wrong, i love Logan to death, we are a lot alike but he is a bit of a ticking bomb). Bobby is as much of a 'loose cannon' as he needs to be in order to get the straight story out of the suspect in interrogation. (i.e. The good doctor, crazy, Jones, POI, suite sorrow... etc). LOL i have to admit, i came in on the show when 'the faithful aired on network TV & my first response when i saw VDO playing in a television series (i have been a fan for a long time) was gleeful. But when i saw him talking with howard, the crazy homless guy i was like 'what's wrong with this phsyco???) He certianally was very convencing at being 'sanely deranged' as i explain it. Bobby summed it up the best when he said that he was an 'aquired taste' his little quirky ways take some getting used to, i learned to look past them & i liked what i saw.
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Post by mcullinan on Jan 14, 2006 14:52:59 GMT -5
what were the books the girls where using to trick the dectives?
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