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Post by Sirenna on Oct 1, 2005 16:28:42 GMT -5
she's a serial killer in that she compulsively keeps killing people and she's definately in denial about this part of herself. She wants the outside world to see her as smart and successful - especially smart. That's why she keeps popping up as some kind of academic or science expert.
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Post by trisha on Oct 1, 2005 20:57:17 GMT -5
I disagree that her killings are compulsive. She has clear, and often complicated motives, and while they are incredibly selfish, the killings themselves are not a form of wish fulfillment, which is what the underlying motives for most serial slayings are.
Now, I will concede that many psychologists and psychiatrists do not agree what exactly constitutes a "serial killer," but, for the most part, it's agreed that their killings are repetitive, one-on-one (with rare exceptions,) and the victim is a usually a stranger or acquaintance. Often times there appears to be no motive, but that's because the motive is usually based in fantasy or compulsive need. That's what makes serial killings ritualistic, and Nicole just doesn't fit this description, IMO.
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 1, 2005 21:41:31 GMT -5
It's an interesting question -- whether Nicole's a serial killer or not. I tend to think she doesn't quite fit the profile.
In some ways, Nicole fits the profile of a serial killer, given her childhood history of abuse, and the fact that she's killed more than three people, and in between her killings, she's capable of living in the world as a "normal" person. However, I've never got the impression that her motivation for killing has always been a result of psychological urges -- I mean, her murders often seem motivated by practical considerations -- i.e. not wanting to get caught for some other crime and the like...
Serial killers kill because of the satisfaction -- almost always sexual -- they get from the act of killing itself. The killing itself is orgasmic, and one reason so many serial killers take "trophies" from their victims is for use in masturbation fantasies later... The urge to kill is comparable to the urge to have sex. Nicole seems to kill for a wider variety of reasons. And, while true serial killers relive their kills (down to the tiniest details) over and over and over again, Nicole seems quite determined to repress/forget/deny the murders she commits.
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Post by Beaglebabes on Oct 2, 2005 17:54:02 GMT -5
I loved this episode and after rewatching it again I even love it more. The tension between Wallace and Goren is wonderfully intense.
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Post by joanie on Oct 2, 2005 18:49:29 GMT -5
Was the title "Grow" insinuating that Nicole was somehow transforming into kinder gentler serial killer?
Not even Goren's tactics of mind f#cking could morph Wallace into a goody two shoes.
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Post by Cassie on Oct 2, 2005 18:57:37 GMT -5
Was the title "Grow" insinuating that Nicole was somehow transforming into kinder gentler serial killer? I thought and felt that, but I think I am in the minority. Just remember Jeffrey Dahmer, and Ted Bundy, claimed to have met God before their deaths.....
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 2, 2005 19:18:32 GMT -5
The title "Grow" could also have referred to the fact that Gwen's father was attempting to grow tumors in her by using the spiked lotion...
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javawolf
Rookie
Scatter poems on the floor. Turn the poet out the door.
Posts: 16
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Post by javawolf on Oct 2, 2005 19:23:39 GMT -5
The lotion thing was the first thing I thought of, but I never really put much consideration into it.
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 2, 2005 21:37:20 GMT -5
maybe a connotation of growing up? Both Nicole in the sense that she was a mother after a fashion in this episode rather than a disturbed child her adult character reacts against and the kid who has to live with her father killing her mother and trying to kill herself. Her road to adulthood is not going to be easy.
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Post by Metella on Oct 3, 2005 8:57:39 GMT -5
This is from our Irish member, she had trouble logging on:
Can you put a posting under Grow for me and say its from me but I cant get into the site?
This is it;
I havent seen the episode yet but I want to put in a word for Nicole/Goren relationship because I find it complicated and interesting and operating on many levels. She is his anima and as such when he sees her hes like a man possessed,captivated.He is both compelled and horrified.Eames is aware of this and tries to protect him,but only when they are at one and absorbed will the thing between them be finished. Til then she will eternally reappear as the loathly lady,he will play the captivated and flawed knight,and we will all react disproportionately to it.these writers really have found the sore spot in us all!!!!!! bye for now,Janet
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javawolf
Rookie
Scatter poems on the floor. Turn the poet out the door.
Posts: 16
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Post by javawolf on Oct 3, 2005 12:25:05 GMT -5
Wow. Yup, that's it. Well, that's what I think.
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 3, 2005 15:00:00 GMT -5
No, you're right. Her killings are not ritualistic but I do think they are compulsive acts for her. She can't help but be the way she is. It's not her fault, which is something she probably knows because she knows, as does Goren, that child that Nicole was had tons of potential. That must eat away at her now. That she could do all this and suffer the consequences of no healthy love (Gavin) no motherhood, no security. She's even compromised her intellect - one of the few things her monster parents couldn't take away from her. She's been homeless, imprisoned, rejected over and over again because of something someone else did to her when she was a child. She's in denial about all of this.
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 3, 2005 15:00:34 GMT -5
but she can't stop herself continuing to do it.
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Post by Metella on Oct 3, 2005 15:36:31 GMT -5
But I think she CAN stop it - other than the first killing she had her boyfried perform .... they have all been killings to "cover her tracks" She only kills those people when they come to a point that they could compromise her or their actions/decisions will stand in her way. She doesn't have to - but she prefers to kill them. Not compulsive enough or sexual enough or psychotic episode enough for me to call her a serial killer. She is just a plain killer.
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 3, 2005 15:41:26 GMT -5
I've just never got the impression that Nicole enjoys or gets any kind of satisfaction from the act of killing itself. The killing always seems to be a means to an end. Her twisted and brutal path of least resistance to the outcome she needs. Need an identity -- kill a woman and adopt hers, etc...
But I do see what you mean about killing being compulsive for her. When Goren told her she'd eventually kill Gwen, she recognized he was right. Not because it's her plan or even that she wants to do so at the moment, but because circumstances will eventually exist in which killing Gwen will be the path of least resistance from Nicole's perspective.
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