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Post by trisha on Dec 5, 2005 0:27:52 GMT -5
I don’t know if I’m off tonight, or if the show was, because I had a hard time with this one. There were things that kept pulling me out of the story. First Goren’s phone shows it’s 9:12, then 9:13, then back to 9:12. So, not only does the paint prevent wireless signals, it causes a time warp?! And a rusty Pringles can? Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they made of plastic, paper and tin?
I also don’t understand Robby standing outside that girls window for hours waiting for Aidan to come out so he can stalk him to the subway and then push a vending machine down the stairs on him. That’s not only a lot of focus, but it’s a lot of time, and all for an indirect cause of death. This is very hard to swallow.
Another thing that really bothers me is the loose ends with the other characters. Who sabotaged the window film and took the hinges off the guys door? We know Aidan wanted a signal, but it’s never really clear why, and it’s hard to believe that Robby had the time to do it after the killing, and he had no reason to do it before.
I don’t know. Please, someone tell me what I’m missing, because the ending was really good. I just can’t seem to find a reasonable way to get there.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Dec 5, 2005 0:40:21 GMT -5
HA! You beat me to starting this thread by a few minutes! And you left me with the same questions but only more! Who the hell did mess with the window film? I'm asuming the dead guy did though the detectives seemed to think otherwise. And if the Doctor knew Goren was lying when he said he had a girlfriend in Mad Capras or whatever, why didn't she know they really weren't torturing the boy in t he interrogation room by their faces? Wasn't she also a pro at reading faces? As for the Pringles can, the only part that could possibly get rusty is the top edge. Does tin rust? I guess we are supposed to use our imaginations here . LOL! I agree that Robbie waiting waiting outside the woindow was odd. Maybe he was just really intent on following him home? And where did he get the machine from anyway? And wouldn't it require lots* of strength to move and shove it like that? And if Robbie just snapped, it seems odd he would wait outside that window all that time. And if it was the music on the headset that set Robbie off, *when* did it set him off? Surely it took time to go find that vending machine, move it, and shove it in perfect time to kill the guy.
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Post by NikkiGreen on Dec 5, 2005 0:55:14 GMT -5
... Goren’s phone shows it’s 9:12, then 9:13, then back to 9:12. So, not only does the paint prevent wireless signals, it causes a time warp?!... It must have been a time warp. When Goren is doing the little service/no service dance at Ubicool, the display reads 11/23/2005 each time. It was November 9 according to the little card before Goren & Eames go to Aidan's place of work.
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digresser
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 149
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Post by digresser on Dec 5, 2005 1:36:12 GMT -5
I'm so glad I can come to this board and realize that I'm not alone in my confusion! Usually I can follow the show pretty well, but boy did they have a lot of inconsistency with facts, loose threads (pardon the pun) and facial expressions (the lies, etc) this time. I suppose it makes it more "realistic" that not everything was tied up at the end, but still, most of the episode - save the acting- felt a little sloppy. But then again, I know that the usual quality of CI eps has raised my expectations of television episodes to very high levels. This episode was good but I think we've seen far better. There were some great points though. Not certain what exactly was going on with the coffee machine scene, but I liked it. That Eames sure does like her sugar! Personally, I like the stance on torture the show (and Goren) took. It was also fascinating to see how Goren views his interrogation methods. In addition, I always like it when a suspect calls Goren on something. I like it even more when Goren uses it to his advantage Now, was anyone else hoping for a better scene between him and the doctor? I really wanted to see Goren have a few difficulties with her interrogation. I suppose there wasn't time. I think this was an ep that really could have been served better by going on longer than an hour (or whatever time is left after commercials). Quick question. My station showed a "stay tuned for next week's scenes" spot and then never showed a promo for next week's episode. Anyone else have that problem?
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Post by Techguy on Dec 5, 2005 9:34:44 GMT -5
Well, it's back to the tape again for me because, quite frankly, I was thoroughly and completely confused. The prior posts list most of my problem areas so I won't be redundant. This episode on initial viewing came across as an incoherent mess saved only by the acting, which essentially was wasted.
Maybe a longer episode to clarify and tie up loose ends would have helped, maybe not. But it's not the kind of episode I would have expected, or hoped for, before a long drought of new episodes. I knew from the get-go I was having issues with this episode because as the hour moved along, I kept wishing for Logan to make an entrance to liven things up--and maybe explain WTF was going on!
Ho hum, so now I have weeks of NBC holiday specials to look forward to.
Ho hum.
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Post by det1stgrade on Dec 5, 2005 10:01:29 GMT -5
I haven't fully watched the episode yet, but skipped around on my tape here and there while rewinding just to see if I could get the gist of what the ep. was about. All I did see was Bobby talking about the SERE program. My b/f was 82nd Airborne, stationed at Ft. Bragg and went through SERE. It's since been discontinued, as the "PC" said it was too inhumane & dangerous. I'm glad my b/f DID go through & graduate the program-- it saved his butt in Grenada, Afghanistan and Iraq. Can't wait to watch the full ep. and see what all the confusion is about.
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Post by jackson on Dec 5, 2005 10:13:21 GMT -5
Yep, it was the same for me. Most shows go into re-runs around Christmas but with the rotating characters I didn't know if they would or not. I think I expected a little more from this ep because the previews looked so dang creepy and then...............it wasn't. but oh well.............. The coffee scene..........I dunno but I loved it! When he was pouring all that sugar I was like dang man, enough already. And then he brought it to Eames and it just struck me as funny. CI hardly ever allows for anything personal so when you find out Alex likes lots of sugar in her coffe and you see Bobby make it I get estatic.
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Post by Patcat on Dec 5, 2005 13:58:17 GMT -5
I'm glad I wasn't the only one confused by this episode. I had a sense that this was one of the scripts that had too much in it to fit in the time slot. I was hoping for a confrontation between Goren and the psychiatrist that never came--I thought her breakdown at the end came too quickly and easily. It seemed that the plotting of this episode--which, as others have noted, wasn't that clear--got in the way of the emotional content of the story.
Having written that, I was glad of what we got.
Patcat
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Post by LOCIfan on Dec 5, 2005 16:08:03 GMT -5
Add me to the pack. I really liked the *idea* of this episode, but thought the execution of the story was very sloppy. I thought that Robbie snapped from hearing the throbbing music at the party, so it didn't make any sense to me that he'd just have followed Aidan, sat around waiting for him, followed him some more to the subway and then killed him. Just how long does the throbbing music work on a guy anyway? And, how would he have heard the music on Aidan's earbuds anyway? Weren't they in Aidan's ears? That confused me quite a bit. Though I really liked the actor who played Robbie. Great casting. I agree about the shrink and her ability to read faces when it was convenient for the story, then suddenly unable to when *that* was convenient for the story. Also, something about her whole torture chamber in the basement seemed just wrong. If she was so horrified by what she'd done, wouldn't it have been just too traumatic for her to recreate that setting for another unsuspecting victim? It seemed she'd need to be a lot more "off" or delusional or just *something* to do what she did because she felt terrible about her previous actions. If she'd been more the pure, heartless scientist, even, that would've made more sense to me.
Can't say I think this one would've benefitted from additional time. I found the problems not so much in a lack of explanations, but in explanations that didn't make sense to me. Just my take...
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Post by trisha on Dec 5, 2005 17:04:04 GMT -5
I also don't think more time would have helped. It needed a rewrite. The MO was valid, but not the amount of time between the trigger and the reaction, or the method of killing. Had Robbie gone over to UBcool to confront them about the music, been turned away, or perhaps distracted by Aidan, and then bashed him over the head or shoved him down a flight of stairs, I could buy that as an accurate reflection of a violent psychotic break. The second weakest part of this episode was the missing pieces of the red herring. Why not lead the audience toward a person who stood to gain by spying on both UBcool and Kevin? It would have been much less confusing. Instead it seemed like Goren decided that they were being led into a paranoid fantasy, and dropped half the story before it could make sense to the rest of us. Other issues, like the time warp and Goren thinking that a Pringles can would rust after a few days of exposure should have been picked up by a script editor. I agree with Techguy, this episode had me looking, and hoping, for Logan to make an appearance. BTW, after the episode when when a promo for the next new episode was announced, it was for an all new Law & Order -- the mothership, not CI
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Post by urufu on Dec 5, 2005 17:16:34 GMT -5
Hi I'm new here but I've been wastching CI for a while now. The dead guy, who work for UBCool, was the one who put the "antenna" and he put the string in the windows. He was working with the guy who sat across from the killer. I'm can't reall remember names right now. Remeber in the office he lied and said that he didn't see anyone in the office. For a while they all thought that UBCool was spying on people but it turns out that people were spying on them. They thought that it had something to do with the case but it actually had nothing to do with it. The only thing that had anything to do with the case and UBCool was the music that they were playing. The music reminded him of the room so he followed the guy and killed him. Probably thinking that if he killed him he would kill the memory. That is what i gathered from the show, I could be wrong but thats how I got it.
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Dec 5, 2005 18:32:14 GMT -5
I have to admit, I was expecting a lot after 'Wee Small Hours' LOL but I liked the episode all the same. The Doctor told detectives that he suffered a break because of the music & thats why he killed the guy, right? But didn't he actually suffer the psychotic break when she was keeping him in that room & it caused that type of music to be a kind of 'trigger' for his rage? I guess the only way we would have known for sure was if they had forced him to listen to it in the interrogation room, then we would have seen his reaction. I felt for the poor guy, I'm also terrified of the dark & I'd go crazy too if someone forced me to spend two weeks in a windowless pitch-black room.
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digresser
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 149
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Post by digresser on Dec 6, 2005 2:59:13 GMT -5
BTW, after the episode when when a promo for the next new episode was announced, it was for an all new Law & Order -- the mothership, not CI I just re-watched my tape to double-check. My station, at least, showed Goren and Eames and said "stay tune for scenes from the next all new Criminal Intent". They did eventually show scenes from the mothership, but they definitely messed up in showing the promo. Maybe the ad people were stuck in the same time loop as Goren's cell phone. Of course, since it'll be a few weeks until we get a new CI and probably a month until a new Goren and Eames, the mistake hurt just a little extra. Those NBC people get your hopes and then dash them all over the sidewalk! Okay, that's enough with the melodramatic angst. I suppose, I'll just use the next few weeks to work on my master plan to get Desperate Housewives moved to a new time. The CI drought shall fuel my ire! If anyone is interested, here's a link on how to make an antenna out of a Pringles container: www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/448I don't know about the rust, but I've learned to give Goren the benefit of the doubt.
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Post by Metella on Dec 6, 2005 8:47:53 GMT -5
Well, I'm glad for the show - it was better than all the others that night, though it wasn't one of CI's best.
I don't mind loose ends if they are planned that way, this just didn't seemed planned. I ignor all the time/date warps - I chalk it up to not enough time to reshoot something if the editor did catch it & keep going.
I felt that some "Gorenisms" were just thrown into this episode for feeling ..... I guess he may have needed to climb up on that girl's porch - but did he really? wouldn't the string have been dropped on the ground? Something else I can't recall at this time struck me as just a gorenism thrown in.
I also really liked the coffee/sugar scene .... as he was putting obscene amount of sugar in that cup - I kept trying to think ahead and wonder who he was going to give the ruined coffee to, and what distraction/reaction he was hoping for ...... got me!
I didn't like the waxing on the torture .... seemed to hollow to me; but then I thought about it and I must sound like that sometimes when I am talking about the environmental health of our planet - so I will stay neutral on that scene.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Dec 6, 2005 16:03:20 GMT -5
I rewatched the show without reading any posts so as not to influence my opinion. After a second viewing, it makes much more sense to me. I assume that Robbie was the one doing the stalking and spying on UbiCool and Kevin as well. The only thing off to me was the time between Robbie snapping and killing Aidan. Otherwise, I think this was one of the best in a long time, the best so far this season.
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