5:09 - "Scared Crazy" 2005-12-04

[Cassie]

I am also disappointed in this episode, because of the loose ends. In the episode Malignant. Goren discovered that the Pharmacist was lying while they were making the deal with the kid and his lawyer, for the Steroid Heist. They cleaned up one case and moved on to the next. As Carver once said…”jury’s like nice straight neat lines” Suite Sorrow. So do I.

I am still not sure if UbiCool was being spied on or was being set up by Robbie to look like they were being spied upon. And what about Kevin and his back door? I would have like some closure to that case. If Robbie was involved in these crimes of breaking and entering into Kevin’s home and spying on UbiCool. Then it would not have been a psychotic break. More of a Premeditated Crime/Murder on his part. Carver was going to make a deal for Manslaughter and have Robbie committed. Hmmmm, thinking more about it, doesn’t the stalking and moving of the machine, makes it pre-meditated? Sure there might be some extenuating circumstances, I guess, but its not like Robbie was standing next to Adrian on a street corner, and heard Adrian’s music and then just pushed him into traffic. Robbie heard the music, across the street/alley while Adrian’s company was having a party. He followed Adrian and his girlfriend to her home. Waited outside until Adrian left, and then followed him to the stairs. Where he walked the vending machine to the steps and pushed it down on Adrian. I could be wrong, but I think Robbie had plenty of time to do his focus exercises.

After watching the Wee Small Hours. I really would like to see more 2 hour shows. I think a lot more of a subject matter can be covered. I would be content to see the two Major Case Squads once a month. I also think Eames looked radiant in her new winter coat, with her hoodie hanging out.

[NicoleMarie]

I think Robbie was spying on UbiCool in part because of the house music and due to the fact that he saw Kevin there. I think he was spying on Kevin just to spy on him and for being at UbiCool. As for Aidan, his boss said the potato chip can was just to "thumb his nose at him".

I'm not sure *when* Kevin had his psychotic break but I assume he was stalking and spying on Aidan and at one point, Robbie may have been close enough to be set off by the music on Aidan's headset. Of course, we are left to assume. I think the manslaughter deal is viable due to the psychiatrist making his paranoid condition even worse than he already was. I think she should be charged as an accessory to murder since she was the catalyst in robbie's psychotic break. The only thing that throws me off a bit is the psychiatrist is a SERE and is trained to withstand severe interrogation yet Goren broke her easily. I will happily chalk this one up to Goren's brillant mind and techniques!

-Edited by me for spelling-

[Metella]

While I do enjoy picking up things I missed in a first viewing from chatters here and the occasional re-run ..... a second viewing should not be manditory to following the plot line. So if the details unwind a little more, ok. If things just don't hold together, then I bet the writers wish they had more time for re-writes. I think this is one that should have had some more twicking. With that said, it was a good premise - still a better show than most; but too confusing as it was presented.

[trisha]

NicoleMarie, I think you may be onto something.

I still don't think the murder is realistic *at all* according to the MO presented, but the loose ends with Kevin's back door and the window film can be explained with the presentation of Robbie as a very paranoid person. His boss did say that he would go into the bathroom to eavesdrop on meetings he wasn't invited to attend. It's plausible that he was paranoid about what the people at UBcool were doing, and replaced the wires on the window with threads, and began following Aidan after seeing him behave suspiciously. It's also plausible that his paranoia lead him to spy on Kevin to the point of breaking into his apartment.

It's plausible, but it wasn't developed enough for even the most seasoned CI watchers to follow along. I agree with Metella that it should never take a second watching to understand.

So, in order for this story to make sense, we have to look at it this way ...

Robbie spied on everyone. The things that Aidan did were, for whatever reason, most agitating for him. The music at the UBcool party set him off. He saw Aidan leave, and followed him. He may or may not have gotten a grip while waiting "hours" for Aidan to leave the girls apartment, but he at least tried with the thread. He then followed Aidan to the subway, where Aidan started listening to house music on his ipod. The night must have been quiet, and Aidan must have had it turned up loud, because Robbie heard it, and it pushed him over the edge. After killing Aidan with the vending machine, Robbie somehow got to Aidan while he was under it and ripped the ear buds out of his ears and off the ipod.

The problem with this scenario, is that I had to make a lot of leaps and assumptions to get there. Very un-CI like.

[NicoleMarie]

It's still probematic for me too but, that's the most sense I can make out of it with the pieces presented in the show. It's one of the reasons I hate ambigious endings, I hate having to assume anything.

OT: Did anyone notice the mountain of sugar Goren poored in Eames' coffee?

[jackson]

OT: Did anyone notice the mountain of sugar Goren poored in Eames' coffee?

I did and it struck me funny.

[Metella]

I already talked about it - thought it was going to be a distractions for some bad guy. Someone else also mentioned it earlier.

[digresser]

metella said:

I already talked about it - thought it was going to be a distractions for some bad guy. Someone else also mentioned it earlier.

I believe that was me, some 20 posts or so ago. I really wanted to see Eames drink it and find out if Goren had made it right or was having a little fun. I doubt he would do something like that in the middle of a case, but with Goren you can never really know. I do wonder why it was included, though. As much as I enjoyed it, I think I would have liked it a little bit better if the time used for the coffee scene was instead used to explain the "spying" plotline. It probably could have been done with two lines or so.

But...you know what? There is always the slim chance that the "spying" plotline will be resolved later (like with "Zoonotic" and "Person of Interest"), and personal insights in Eames are so rare that I suppose that in the grand scheme of the show it was worth it.

[jackson]

I do wonder why it was included, though. As much as I enjoyed it, I think I would have liked it a little bit better if the time used for the coffee scene was instead used to explain the "spying" plotline. It probably could have been done with two lines or so.

Not me.It made the episode for me.

[Observer2]

digresser said:

...I really wanted to see Eames drink it and find out if Goren had made it right or was having a little fun... ...I do wonder why it was included, though. As much as I enjoyed it, I think I would have liked it a little bit better if the time used for the coffee scene was instead used to explain the "spying" plotline. It probably could have been done with two lines or so.

I’m sorry I haven’t been around enough to join in this thread earlier. And I don’t have much time right now... but I wanted to toss out a couple of quick comments, and hope to get back to it with time to write something more substantial sometime soon.

First, the coffee... I wouldn’t make the assumption that Eames likes that much sugar in regular coffee. Wasn’t that an espresso machine, with a cute little espresso cup? I’ve never had the stuff, but I thought espresso was stronger than regular coffee. If so, Eames might like more sugar in that than in regular coffee.

And the thing is, it seems to me that they *did* use that scene to help clear up part of the “spying” aspect of the plot. That’s where Robby’s boss mentions Robby’s paranoid spying behavior at work.

My only frustration with this episode is that when the four regulars were touching on the debate about the use of torture, and even when Goren was putting the pressure on Pinchon about what she did at Guantanamo, no one mentioned the fact that not everyone detained as a suspected terrorist is actually a terrorist. Or has any valuable knowledge of terrorist organizations. The presumption of innocence is eliminated, and everyone keeps talking as though only terrorists were being tortured.

Aside from that, I thought it was well done. As to how quickly Goren was able to break Pinchon, that is partly explained by her own inner conflict over what she did at Guantanamo and what she did to Robby, and her intense guilt over the fact that it caused Robby further psychological damage and caused him to murder someone. Most criminals experience a desire to confess... it would have been greatly magnified in this case, giving Goren a powerful weapon to use against her defenses.

The moment in this episode that hit me hardest was when Goren was pushing Pinchon about what she did at Guantanamo, and she said, “It was my job. My job.”

What a grotesque, horrific echo... “I vas only following orders!”

Only this time, no German accent. This time it’s us. This time it’s not Germany, it’s the United States, being led step by barely noticeable step into accepting things that 20 years ago we would never have thought possible. The German people were no more evil than we are. And apparently we are no more wise than they were.

[NicoleMarie]

observer2 said:

[First, the coffee... I wouldn’t make the assumption that Eames likes that much sugar in regular coffee. Wasn’t that an espresso machine, with a cute little espresso cup? I’ve never had the stuff, but I thought espresso was stronger than regular coffee. If so, Eames might like more sugar in that than in regular coffee.

My husband puts 15 sugars and 4 creams in his regular coffee. (I tell him he's goning to end up a diabetic!) Maybe Eames is the same way he is when it comes to sugar? I only like French Cappucino.

[Metella]

I also felt the ring of the quiet-loving German citizen that only too late realized They are now the ones in peril.

I can see her regreting what she did, but not why she felt she had to prove it would work again to valid her work - I would think a person of her experience and intelligence would let sleeping mistakes lie?

[LOCIfan]

metella said:

I also felt the ring of the quiet-loving German citizen that only too late realized They are now the ones in peril.

I can see her regretting what she did, but not why she felt she had to prove it would work again to valid her work - I would think a person of her experience and intelligence would let sleeping mistakes lie?

This is at the heart of my discontent with this episode. I found the idea behind it fascinating and very interesting and relevant. But Pinchon's character and her actions didn't ring true to me. I'd have believed it if she were more delusional or even more of a cold-blooded scientist. But she seemed to have a clear understanding of what she'd been complicit in at Guantanamo, and I couldn't see her actually setting up a torture chamber in her basement to continue that work as a means of alleviating her guilt. I COULD see her devoting tons of time to treating victims of torture or some other mea culpa type of behavior, but not what she did to Robbie.

The sugar in the coffee was hilarious. Even for espresso, that was LOTS of sugar!

[trisha]

Okay, I was pretty sure that a Pringles can wouldn't rust, but like Digresser, I've learned to give Goren the benefit of doubt on numerous occasions. This time, I had to turn to the experts, and emailed the question to one of the developers of the Pringles can. His response:

"... The container has a bottom which is not likely to rust. It has corrosion resistant materials which resist recent corrosion.

The rest of the container will NOT rust ..."


And, in case you were wondering, the rest of the parts needed to build a cantenna are plastic, copper, and aluminum; none of which would rust, either.

That's not to say the scene would have been lost had a script editor picked up on it. If a Pringles can was left out in the rain, the paper label would most likely show signs of being water logged

[digresser]

That's awesome research, Trisha! You're definitely right, but I still have to give Goren the benefit of the doubt. My reason is because upon closer inspection (aka freeze frame) I realized that the can is not in fact a Pringles can. It's a generic chip container (something with the word "crunchy" in it, I think). Hence, it could conceivably be made out of metal. At least, I think so. I also think it sounded like metal when Eames tapped it, but that's really stretching it. Am I giving this too much thought? Probably.

metella said:

I felt that some "Gorenisms" were just thrown into this episode for feeling ..... I guess he may have needed to climb up on that girl's porch - but did he really? wouldn't the string have been dropped on the ground? Something else I can't recall at this time struck me as just a gorenism thrown in.

I agree that the standing on the bench was definitely a "Gorenism", but I thought he stood to determine that someone could see in, because the rest of the view was blocked. That might not be it at all, but that's what I took it to mean.

Sorry if I seem a bit argumentative tonight. I'm watching Chris Noth's The Perfect Man and the dialogue and storyline hurt so much. I suppose that isn't really an explanation, but it should help explain my state of mind. Heck, I think I could commit a felony right now and clearly be shown as not being in my sound mind. Poor, poor Chris Noth. No wonder he puts up with Barek. At least her mumblings aren't contrived and inane.