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Post by Metella on Feb 23, 2006 9:18:02 GMT -5
"rights" is a new thing and mostly a Western thing; the rabid muslims don't care about rights, they want to be all powerful for allah. jews for the most part just leave things alone and have their own communities, atheists usually just like to argue. but each group seems to think they have the best way to live for all people in all places; even with this large difference - most do not want to kill each other (in the last 2 centuries anyway) or take "rights" away - they just want to be free to move about and pursue their own interests. as an atheist, I don't want to kill you as a christian, I do want to engage you in all sorts of conversation so I can point out the error of your ways but a dog lover shouldn't be killed just because they are a christian
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Post by trisha on Feb 24, 2006 12:57:00 GMT -5
Cassie, I seriously think that could be happening right now. Locifan, I understand better where you're coming from now. I guess I just feel that any attempt to rationalize bigotry and intolerance somehow validates the views. Also, once we start internalizing the indignity and intolerance of others, stuff like this becomes acceptable: The destruction of free speech, Part 1destuction of free speech, Part 2All the arguments made over the Danish paper's right to freedom speech and expression really goes to crap when stuff like this happens. It also adds to the list of pro-Zionist actions (or inactions) taken by the West, as opposed to the anti-Muslim actions/inactions. So, your point is taken, and taken again. eta: just to clarify, I am totally disgusted with Irving, but I don't think someone should be jailed for what's he's done. Publically ostracized and hung in effigy, yes, but not jailed. The London mayor ... well, he used used a really bad metaphore in his defence of the gay and lesbian commuinty. Had the reporter not been a Jew, I wonder how much of a fuss would have been kicked up.
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Post by Cassie on Feb 25, 2006 9:38:33 GMT -5
Trisha,
We are there! Freedom of Speech has gone out the window, for everyone, everywhere. We have to be “politically correct” whenever we speak, but that is subject to change wherever you go! There are Double Standards within all forms of governments. Whether it be in the Country, Companies, Churches, or our own Neighborhoods. People in Power look out for their friends first and are no longer objective when dealing with whatever the situation may be. But that is how it has always been from the beginning of time.
The birth of America came about because a group of people the Puritans were on the run, from the rapidly changing religious rules of England. They were being persecuted . So they moved on, found a new land, and actually slowly pushed out the original owners of that land, The Indians of America. Did they realize, care what they were doing. It was a slow process, but that is what happened. The Indians got squished into a small area out west called the Reservations. This was their home first, we were their guest.
There are 2 definitions for the word Fear:
False Evidence Appearing Real
Or
Fuck Everything And Run
There is no place to run anymore. Maybe some day we can actually colonize in Space. But who will we meet there, who will we try to change to OUR way of thinking, whatever way that may be. I do know at this point and time in life. I am tired of the bullies, and they come ins all shapes and sizes, expecting me to live up to their standards. I, myself walk a fine line anymore, not to be bullied and not to bully others. I am quite willing to agree to disagree. But no one likes to be mock and scoff at, for who they are, or what they believe. It wears on you….. If someone tries to take my rights away, I am willing to die for what I believe in, but No, I am not going to kill anyone for them to think my way or the highway. And I would like to believe that if someone who is being persecuted for who they are, that I would be there to protect them.
I don’t know much about it, but my sisters ex-husband, and his family actually went into hiding, here in America back in the late 1970’s because of the Americans that were being held hostage in Iran. They lived in a neighbors basement for almost a year. They feared for their lives, here in America. Imagine that.
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Post by janetcatbird on Feb 27, 2006 15:10:00 GMT -5
Fareed Zakaria talked with author Christopher Hitchens about the cartoon controversy in this week's episode of "Foreign Exchange". While I don't know much about Hitchens, the gist of it was that he's pretty controversial and blunt. (I'll bump the thread over in TV Talk so people can watch online. The interview with Hitchens starts around the 14:45 mark, give or take a couple seconds.)
Zakaria opened up with a hypothetical about someone commissioning derogatory cartoons about Martin Luther King--I guess he figured that the race situation and that particular leader was one most Americans would be able to relate with. It was weird, it seemed like he and Hitchens were each spoiling for a fight, but on different topics--although they never got rude or ugly. Anyways, I'll have to watch it again and it is an interesting perspective.
--Catbird
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Post by Metella on Mar 3, 2006 12:26:02 GMT -5
Here is a non-cartoon bit; but still fanatical / related problem ..... snippet from Yahoo news....
anti-Bush demonstrations have been held in various Indian cities by communists and Muslim groups during his visit.
Violence erupted in the city of Lucknow when dozens of armed Muslims tried to force Hindu shop owners to shut their stores to protest Bush's visit, said Senior Superintendent of Police Ashutosh Pandey. The two sides argued, exchanged blows, and finally shot at each other, killing a Muslim teenager, Pandey said.
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I don't blanket this on muslims - but this is insane and truely there needs to be no soft place for these nuts to rest.
Hindus have historically been very tolerate of other religions (they are rigid in their own caste system) very allowing of others to do what they want to do in pursuit of life ..... so inflicting this on hindu shop owner is really nasty.
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Post by Sirenna on Dec 30, 2006 17:00:03 GMT -5
Bumping this thread to contain discussion in light of what happened to Saddam early this morning. Also here too.
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Post by Metella on Dec 30, 2006 17:10:55 GMT -5
I have been for the death penalty when I was young and not very knowledgable; now I am for it only when the condemed person also wants death - there having been so many mistakes & no matter what people Want to think - eye witness are so faulty as to be almost useless.
However, could Saddam not have been the one ordering opponents AND their family members to death?
I am not sure what I think on this topic & most think it is for the people in his country to decide.
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Post by drsues on Jan 5, 2007 23:59:56 GMT -5
In order to have true dialog between different points of view, each participant must be willing to accept that their own point of view may need to change. That's the jist of a concept from Tony Compolo, (of whom I had the pleasure of hearing at our church a few months ago.) He was not speaking about this topic, but it raises a point relating to Islam and sharia laws prohibiting speaking against Islam. There is no dialog or discussion as an option. You have groups of people who operate under these laws despite the rule of law in any land they inhabit. Checkout this article by Diana West as some food for thought. www.townhall.com/columnists/DianaWest/2006/12/30/the_year_of_shutting_up
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Post by sarahlee on Jan 7, 2007 15:08:59 GMT -5
drsues makes an excellent point--true dialogue can only occur when the parties agree that viewpoints can be fluid, and change. The muslim people that I loved growing up seem to be gone these days, they were loving, hospitable, admirable, tolerant (!) friends. Not what I'm seeing lately.
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