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Post by Patcat on Aug 27, 2007 13:56:46 GMT -5
Airs Thursday, August 30, 2007, at 11pm (EST) on the USA NETWORK (may be delayed by coverage of the US OPEN)
8th Episode of Season Two. First aired November 17, 2002.
Written by Marlane Gormand Meyer and Rene Balcer Directed by Darnell Martin
Guest Actors: Manny Perez (Jorge Galvez); Rider Strong (Ethan Edwards)
The investigation of the death of a policeman's daughter leads Goren and Eames to unlikely potential suicide bomber.
Quotes:
Canine Unit Officer: "This container's positive for explosives." Goren: "Any way to tell how much?" Officer: "From the Homer's dancing around, I'd say quite a lot." Eames: "So much for sleep."
Ethan Edwards: "I'm one of five people who actually reads the SMITHSONIAN magazine." Goren: " Six. One of Six."
Eames (picking up a SMITHSONIAN): "You actually read this?" Goren: "It's the perfect size for my treadmill."
Deakins: "Suicide bomber. When in hell did this kid decide that's what he wants to be when he grows up?" Eames: "Doesn't look like he plans to grow up."
Eames (in front of the writing on the victim's wall): "Go ahead. Impress me." Goren: "It's Aramiac. It's the language Christ spoke. Parts of the New Testament were written in it. But don't ask me what it means."
Ethan: "I was sent by God." Eames: "So were we."
Yes, it's another entry written by Marlane Gormand Meyer, one that addresses the fears of a post 9/11 America.
How realistic is it for this case to remain in NYPD hands? Or in the hands of Major Case? Would it be more realistic for it to be sent to the FBI, or the NYPD's own Anti-Terrorism Squad? Come to that, with his command of languages and experiences in Army intelligence, how likely is it that Bobby Goren is still with Major Case?
How well does this episode handle potential religious and racial prejudices?
We learn several things about Goren in this episode--that his mother was a librarian, that he reads THE SMITHSONIAN (a very cool magazine by the way that I'm sure much more than six people read), and that he read the KORAN to impress a girl. I don't doubt Goren read the KORAN, but to impress a girl?
How realistic is Ethan's transformation from the child of the American upper class to a suicide bomber?
There's some lying in this story--the NYPD and the FBI lie to the press, Goren lies to Ethan about his mother. Is it justified?
How is the FBI portrayed?
Who is the pilgrim? (I'm not sure of this myself.)
Will Goren need a tetanus shot after being bitten?
Comment: I like this episode. I like the way Eames takes the role of commentator, giving voice to the fears and irritation that I think many in the public feel about the ineffective dealings with terrortists. I like Goren's use of his wide knowledge about many things and how he brings them together in both the investigation of the case and the interview of Ethan Edwards. I like Deakins taking an active role in the investigation But I've always felt that there's something I've missed in this story, some connection I haven't gotten in the plot. And I don't know what it is. Perhaps the interrogation scenes leave me almost as exhausted as its participants. Perhaps the implications of the story, and the fact that Jorge almost sets off his bomb, leave me so disconcerted that I'm a bit shell shocked.
Again, submitted (a little early this week) for you comments and consideration.
Patcat
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Post by Summerfield on Aug 27, 2007 20:43:22 GMT -5
I always saw Ethan as the pilgrim.
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Post by sarahlee on Aug 28, 2007 7:57:38 GMT -5
Will Goren need a tetanus shot after being bitten? Patcat No, see, Eames will just cross-hatch the wound (with Goren's switchblade) and eject all those nasty germs...
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Post by ragincajun on Aug 28, 2007 9:58:22 GMT -5
Will Goren need a tetanus shot after being bitten? Patcat Also will he get a hepatitis and Aids test? If the bite made it Through the shirt.
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Post by musicwench on Aug 28, 2007 10:01:25 GMT -5
This is one of those episodes I didn't really feel I understood completely either. Again, I have to watch it again since it's been a while since I've done so.
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effie
Detective
off chasing plot bunnies...
Posts: 264
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Post by effie on Aug 28, 2007 10:41:26 GMT -5
I was always really impressed with the deft and gentle handing of Goren's interactions with the Muslim community in this episode...
and... when Goren mentions his "muslim friends..." I always want to know where he's hanging out. He's got a lot of interesting friends with different religions/ethnicities/lifestyles that we hear about and hardly ever see!
and lastly (for now anyway) this is the first episode where I really truly got the height differential between Goren and Eames... when they're walking away together at the end in uniform. She has no heels on so its especially noticeable...
Ok, so I can't be trusted to wrap things up... this is also the first of two mentions of the Singular Singles website. It comes up again in Season 4's Silver Lining...
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Post by DonnaJo on Aug 28, 2007 21:16:43 GMT -5
Pilgrim is one of those episodes that I find a little far fetched, although very enjoyable viewing.
The idea that Major Case would handle this, simply because the victim's Dad is a retired cop, is really stretching it. There is an entire department in the NYPD (Anti-Terrorist Task Force) devoted to such crimes since 9-11. I guess one of those was the sniper on the roof at the end. Goren didn't seem to rattled by almost getting blown up & by a bullet missing him by a few inches. He & Eames sort of walk away unscathed.
The FBI was portrayed as they usually are - not very competent and too concerned with procedure & red tape. Very satisfying to see Deakins with vest & gun at one of the terrorist locations.
Every time I see the scene when Ethan's throat is almost slashed by his partner, I can't believe how unconvincing it looks. There is such a deliberate pause when the knife is held to his throat, as if the actor is waiting to be shot. Anyone else notice that?
Is it realistic that Ethan should turn out to be a suicide bomber? Probably not. They couldn't really delve to deeply into his background or psychological issues. The fact that his dad didn't go to Appalachia with him & his Mom doesn't mean much. Maybe the guy had to work? Also, many fathers & sons have different political & social agendas - how many become suicide bombers?
I find that scene interesting, the little exchange between Goren & & Ethan at the interrogation table, when Goren places his hand on Ethan's shoulder & Ethan pulls it off & Goren takes his hand & slams it down. Is that a control thing? What is Goren trying to prove?
I always feel that the poor dead woman sort of gets lost during the episode. Eames refers to her as "a consolation prize" when they find her body. Although Goren does tell Ethan that they care about finding her so her family can bury her. I also recall a discussion on this Board way back, about the use of heavy women as desperate, needy, naive types. Is Leslie a stereotype here?
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Post by ragincajun on Aug 28, 2007 21:27:07 GMT -5
I will comment more after I see it again, But in the Beginning I think MCS got the case due to the fact her dad was a retired cop and really at that point she was just a missing person, so it was kinda far fetched. Also it seemed strange that the FBI seemed to let MCS lead the show throughout the case. Also Homer the drug dog, wasn't Homer also the cadaver dog in Posthumous Collection? Do dogs get trained for different scents? If so how do you know what they are pointing out? Or all they all called Homer?
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Post by Summerfield on Aug 28, 2007 22:02:27 GMT -5
While I liked the premise behind the episode, I never cared for the ending. It seemed phoney and forced (bad directing)? Goren was an inch away from having his brains splattered and he and Eames just casually walk away? Even when the suspected bomber was dead, and the cops were called in, people in the background pay no attention. Hey, it's New York..no one gives a f...
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Post by Techguy on Aug 28, 2007 22:54:58 GMT -5
I'll have to watch this episode again--not sure when that will be because I find the subject matter very disturbing--before I comment in depth, but I can offer a few opinions.
As ragincajun points out, at the outset the missing woman, the daughter of the retired cop, is presumed to have been kidnapped and thus falls under the cases handled by MCS. It's only later, when the terrorist suicide bomber angle becomes apparent, that this episode becomes far fetched when MCS continues to be involved instead of being turned over to an anti-terrorism task force. Of course, CI has mostly dealt with homicide cases which in the real world are outside the jurisdiction of MCS, so a case could be made that most of the CI stories have been far fetched.
The FBI? From what I remember from the last time I watched this episode they were portrayed as arrogant incompetents who were in over their heads and needed the MCS detectives to save the day and do the jobs the agency should have done in the first place.
I agree with Summerfield--I always thought of Ethan as the Pilgrim in the title, someone on a spiritual journey although, as it turns out, a terribly misplaced and distorted one. Like DonnaJo, I wish his conversion to Islam was explained better because I feel his treason and loyalty to cold-blooded killers are very unbelievable. I also agree with Summerfield that the ending strains all credibility, the entire struggle between Goren and Jorge and the aftermath. I know it's New York, but there's absolutely no reaction from anyone in the crowd, and the parade goes on as if nothing had happened? I didn't buy it then and still don't.
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Post by Summerfield on Aug 29, 2007 8:02:09 GMT -5
I think the actor who played "Al" also appeared in Vacancy. He was one of the guys in the bar. I can't remember the character's name.
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Post by Patcat on Aug 29, 2007 8:37:06 GMT -5
Many good points on the weaknesses of this episode, which I agree with. So why is it I like this episode, even though it confuses and disturbs me?
Does this episode bite off more than it can chew?
And a purely superficial observation--does anyone else think Goren and Eames look good in those uniforms?
Patcat
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Post by Summerfield on Aug 29, 2007 8:54:51 GMT -5
Maybe you like it for the same reason I do...we get to see Goren doing what he does so well. The interrogation of Ethan is one of my all time favorite scenes. Okay, I've waded to the shallow end. Yes, I thought they looked good in those uniforms. But Goren looked much better unbuttoning his collar and removing his tie.
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Post by ragincajun on Aug 29, 2007 9:22:06 GMT -5
I think the actor who played "Al" also appeared in Vacancy. He was one of the guys in the bar. I can't remember the character's name. he played Jason Bredin on Vacancy the actor is Piter Fattouche. Looked it up on IMDb, was just courious, good eye there summerfield.
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Post by deathroe on Sept 1, 2007 20:27:39 GMT -5
They look great in uniform ... Quick observation about this ep; I'm sorry it isn't longer. I show it in class because it provides a great exercise in literary "decoding," as it were. Ostensibly, this is a crime thriller about terrorism. However, if students are encouraged to look for a hidden meaning, they quickly find that the episode is "about other things." In particular, I think, it is about human loneliness and the search for meaning. This is what the missing woman, Leslie, and the suspect, Ethan, have in common--they are lonely and looking for meaning. Goren reveals to Ethan this meaning using the quotation that Ethan chose to leave on Leslie's bedroom wall: "Night after night on my bed I have sought thee" (Song of Songs). On closer observation, Leslie's fate and Ethan's are seen to be operating in parallel. They both suffer from this "modern malaise" of searching for meaning and for remedies to isolation. Other points: --To me, Goren's use of empathy to catch a suspect is more operative here than it is later in the series (although we might compare his interrogation of Wes in "The War at Home.") I think especially of the scene when they're talking about George W. --To me, the part where Ethan shouts "I was sent by God!" and Eames snaps back "So were we!" is a high point. In a lot of ways, she's a more deep character than she sometimes gets credit for, even in the early days ("The Third Horseman" springs to mind). --This is a very old-school Law and Order episode in that it really does lay out a range of viewpoints about the situation in the Middle East and about North American responses to that situation (presents a dialogue rather than offering one unifying perspective). In some ways, it is more like the original '90s mothership episode in that way than it is like much of LOCI. It's also like the early mothership episodes in terms of being highly didactic about such issues as international and domestic terrorism, the effects of a suicide bombing, the (a)typical North American Muslim, and so on. ** It seemed more contrived to me on this viewing, possibly because I have seen it so many times now: the initial frame story and the mother's heart attack might show this. That said, I wonder if it isn't also a change in mindset, five years on that makes the episode seem stilted. 9-11 seems like yesterday to me, even if I suppose it really wasn't But for my freshmen, it is something that happened when they were children and thus may seem more remote. I always find that there is an emotional dimension to watching and discussing the episode, but that may fade over time I do think it's a good one.
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