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Post by outerbankschick on Dec 5, 2008 20:56:04 GMT -5
After listening to Purgatory on my iPod at work a few times, I have a couple of new points to ponder:
Did Mike actually pay Bobby for his "security" work? And if he did, did Bobby actually use the money or did he do something else with it, like give it away? Would the idea that the money was not really "legit" have bothered him to the point that he couldn't use it for himself, even though he was in dire financial straits? Or would desperation allow him to overlook where the money came from? Would the fact that he was undercover and the higher-ups knew he was likely to receive this money make him feel better about using it? Or worse?
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Post by DonnaJo on Dec 6, 2008 7:22:15 GMT -5
An excellent question, OBC. Good thinking. I am guessing that any funds received by Bobby for what is an official, undercover operation would have to be handed in to the NYPD. He wouldn't be allowed to keep the money, even though he was broke. And Bobby wouldn't want to do anything to mess up his chances to get his shield back. Now I would assume that once Bobby accepted the undercover job, his status was changed to suspended WITH pay. They can't expect him to work as an undercover cop for free? It's illegal and his union would balk big time.
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leanonme
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 166
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Post by leanonme on Dec 8, 2008 20:54:22 GMT -5
After listening to Purgatory on my iPod at work a few times, I have a couple of new points to ponder: Did Mike actually pay Bobby for his "security" work? And if he did, did Bobby actually use the money or did he do something else with it, like give it away? Would the idea that the money was not really "legit" have bothered him to the point that he couldn't use it for himself, even though he was in dire financial straits? Or would desperation allow him to overlook where the money came from? Would the fact that he was undercover and the higher-ups knew he was likely to receive this money make him feel better about using it? Or worse? I watched an episode or two from each season a couple of months ago, but for the past few weeks I have had my head buried in seasons 1,2,3. WOW, what a jump to go to this! I had seen this before, but after watching so much early CI, this was like shell shock. My friend had taken the long slow road of CI and she couldn't understand my shock. I had to remind her of the very big difference of Bobby then and now. I am sure that the Bobby of the early seasons would have never considered taking the money, but I can't really speak to this situation now. Could he have changed that much, that he would actually take money that wasn't legit, even if his situation was bad? Also, could someone please clarify for me exactly how Bobby ended up undercover? Did Stoat just randomly come looking for him, or had someone ( maybe another undercover cop ) planted the idea of Bobby? When Ross said the Chief of D's wanted Bobby because he was already in, I didn't understand that. Did Stoat come to Bobby and then Bobby went to Ross? Or had they already planted Bobby and now wanted him to go further? One more thing, exactly how does and undercover cop get around doing drugs in the situation that Bobby was in?
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Post by outerbankschick on Dec 8, 2008 21:34:14 GMT -5
Stoat mentioned to Bobby in the car that he had "hooks". I assumed that his "eyes and ears" had clued him into the fact that Bobby had been on suspension for quite awhile. I think it was Bobby's recent reputation for being a loose cannon that made Stoat think he might be able to "use" him. Of course, Bobby being Bobby, the moment Stoat left him that gun he did his own legwork and got in touch with Ross, arranged to "drop" him the gun. The Chief of D's wanted Bobby undercover (IMO) for two reasons. One, as Ross said, he was already "inside", and two, as Bobby said, he was probably hoping that Bobby would either screw up and end up shot, or screw up enough that they could fire him without too much hoopla from him or the union. I agree with Donnajo. I don't think Bobby would have wanted anything to mess up his chances of getting his shield back, though he had to be desperate at that point. And then there is the point about his status being changed, too. I hadn't thought of that. About the drugs, I've often wondered that myself. It's an impossible situation. You don't do it, they get suspicious, maybe make you as a cop, and you get shot in the head. You do it, the department tests you, and then you get fired and lose your pension. Why the heck would anyone want to be an undercover with those choices?
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Post by quietfireca on Dec 9, 2008 2:16:03 GMT -5
About the drugs, I've often wondered that myself. It's an impossible situation. You don't do it, they get suspicious, maybe make you as a cop, and you get shot in the head. You do it, the department tests you, and then you get fired and lose your pension. Why the heck would anyone want to be an undercover with those choices? I wonder if you could tell them that you're allergic to the drugs and it would kill you to take them..... Just a thought. I'd sure as heck try it!
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Post by outerbankschick on Dec 11, 2008 22:13:09 GMT -5
I've seen undercovers in other shows, or in movies, say things like "Man, I don't pollute my mind/body with that stuff" or something along those lines, suggesting that they're more than willing to pocket the cash and let someone else ruin their health, but they themsleves do not indulge. Then there is that infamous line from Scarface in which Tony's "boss" Frank tells him, "Never get high on your own supply." Words to live by, eh?
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Post by DonnaJo on Dec 12, 2008 11:21:16 GMT -5
That's a good point, OBC. I think Goren was especially worried about what Stoates would think if he didn't do the line of coke. As a cop who was suspended for doing drugs so he wouldn't get made, he would be suspect regardless of the reasons Goren gave in refusing to party with them.
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Post by outerbankschick on Dec 12, 2008 13:40:55 GMT -5
How fortunate for our Bobby that one of the girls knocked on the door and interrupted. Whew! I can only imagine how awful it would have been if Bobby had been forced to do even one line. Imagine the guilt. . .and the fear that he'd be pulled in for a urine test.
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leanonme
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 166
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Post by leanonme on Dec 12, 2008 17:50:27 GMT -5
How fortunate for our Bobby that one of the girls knocked on the door and interrupted. Whew! I can only imagine how awful it would have been if Bobby had been forced to do even one line. Imagine the guilt. . .and the fear that he'd be pulled in for a urine test. Do you think that Bobby would have actually done it? Or would he have found a way out? 27 out of 27 in narcotics... was he drug free the whole time? When Stoat asked him if he had ever paid off an informant with drugs to catch a bigger fish, Bobby was shocked. I could see the old Bobby just acting so crazy all the time undercover that everyone probably just assumed he was on drugs!
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Post by dragonsback on Dec 12, 2008 19:06:10 GMT -5
How fortunate for our Bobby that one of the girls knocked on the door and interrupted. Whew! I can only imagine how awful it would have been if Bobby had been forced to do even one line. Imagine the guilt. . .and the fear that he'd be pulled in for a urine test. If this had been a British show, there would have been no just-in-time knock at the door, and Goren would have done a line of coke, and ...fine. That, or leave his brains on the ceiling, which is really not a script option for the lead character. Guilt? Nahhhh. Goren knows his way around a razor blade, and obviously not for good grooming. He's an urban creature, and a man of the world. Also inquisitive. Most of all, he's Sherlock's heir. Pass the hookah. Look, I know that free-to-air programs shy away from showing heroes smoking tobacco and doing street drugs. Well intentioned, I guess, but if these tv heroes were really the role models that we are told they are, why, all those impressionable people out there who would snort coke if Goren did, would also be kind to the homeless and all have library cards. Right.
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Post by Patcat on Dec 13, 2008 16:16:33 GMT -5
Well, I think there's a big difference between doing a line of coke to stay in with the people you're investigating and buying off a source with drugs. That may be a moral relativism, but I could see Bobby doing the drugs if he absolutely had to. I think the idea that he might have acted in strange ways to put others off is a good one.
Deakins certainly understood that undercover cops occasionally have to do unsavory things. He wasn't surprised when the undercover FBI agent was doing cocaine. Ross should be equally aware; I suspect the "No Drugs, No Alcohol" was another attempt by the Chief of D's to cripple Bobby.
Patcat
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Post by outerbankschick on Dec 13, 2008 19:04:56 GMT -5
I agree, Patcat. In impossible situations, sometimes the cops have to take the hard road, though I do think the Bobby "of old" would have already been acting like such a nut, Testarrosa probably wouldn't have cared if he did the coke or not. I think if pushed, he would have had to do it. It was that or his life. He would have hated every minute of it, but dang, if it's that or, as Dragonsback suggested your brains going "splat", you do one line and forget it.
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Post by chyochyo on Dec 13, 2008 21:59:13 GMT -5
In spite of the surface weirdness, Goren has always struck me as very conservative about certain things--family duty, for example. I always imagined him being meticulous about paying his bills, because I don't think he like to feel that he is not in control of himself. Also, I think he hasreason to worry about being genetically inclined to addiction. I still think he would have done the coke if he had to, and the stripper ex machina moment was one of the weak points of the episode for me, but I imagine that for practical and moral reasons Bobby would loathe the experience. Oh, did anyone watch Studio Sixty while it was running? For such a sentimental series, it featured a lot of drung use, with one lead character a recovering addict and another on the road to becoming one (an addict, I mean, not necessarily a recovering one). I hated when it got cancelled.
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Post by tjara on Apr 8, 2009 17:07:36 GMT -5
I will still have to dig through this thread before I write anything about this ep, but while watching, I stumbled across something I just cannot understand, no matter how hard I try. It's right at the beginning, when Bobby meets stoat.
Stoat: I know you didn't need my help with that. Goren: Do I know you? Stoat: Mike Stoat. Brooklyn North Narcotics. <unintelligable>. I was a rookie when you worked with Narcotics. What was it?...
Can anybody help me with that?
Oh, and I've been wondering. Mike Stoat says he's been with Brooklyn North, and later there's much involvement with the 64 precinct. and I got the impression that that is Stoat's former precinct. Now that exact precinct doesn't exist, but the Patrol Borough Brooklyn South covers the precincts 60-78. (Brooklyn North covers 73-94) Is this an indication that Bobby probably was in Brooklyn during his time with Narcotics? I mean Stoat says he knew him from back then... Maybe it's just "circumstancial evidence" ;D
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Post by outerbankschick on Apr 8, 2009 17:36:15 GMT -5
Tjara, after Mike tells Bobby he's in Brooklyn North narcotics, he says, "Because of you." Of course, in Stoat's quick tone it comes out sounding like "cuz a you".
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