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Post by jeffan on May 9, 2011 13:46:47 GMT -5
LOL Skittles - I have many of those moments!
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Post by maherjunkie on May 9, 2011 13:52:39 GMT -5
Thanks Skittles - I got that and laughed when Eames took the keys out her pocket. What I don't know is MJ's point about Goren not sneezing around the cat. I don't know the reference. Ohhhhhh. Duh. :facepalm: I didn't figure out that riddle either. LOL Something tells me none of us will gain entrance to the Sphinx.
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Post by jeffan on May 9, 2011 14:11:20 GMT -5
LOL MJ - Not even Gandulf could help us!
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Post by maherjunkie on May 9, 2011 14:15:00 GMT -5
Is that my sweetie from Lord of the Rings?
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Post by jeffan on May 9, 2011 14:33:22 GMT -5
Yup - even Gandulf had forgotten the password to the riddle to open the doors of Durin. Can't wait for "The Hobbit" to be released - phew about two years!
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Leonore
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 145
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Post by Leonore on May 9, 2011 16:23:36 GMT -5
I watched the shrink visit again and D'Onofrio broke my heart when Goren asked her "Do you think I'm crazy?" He's been told by so many people that he is and when he has been asked if he ever asks himself if he's crazy and he's always responded that the fact that he asks makes him sane. It was the look that got me, D'Onofrio got the mixture of uncertainty, questioning, uneasiness and fear spot on!
His frustration in the interview with the Msgr and his lawyer when he says "tick-tock" and "How much time do I have left?" was very clear (Eames looked at him) and the look he had when the Msgr asks Goren if he has any frailties of his own. I think Goren feels time passing and maybe I'm keying into this more intensely because I'm saying "How much time does he have left?"
Another example of the sense that he feels the constant scrutiny is apparent at the end of the episode when he's in the room by himself, back against the wall, with Eames and the captain watching.
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kacesq
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 194
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Post by kacesq on May 9, 2011 19:08:00 GMT -5
I watched the shrink visit again and D'Onofrio broke my heart when Goren asked her "Do you think I'm crazy?" He's been told by so many people that he is and when he has been asked if he ever asks himself if he's crazy and he's always responded that the fact that he asks makes him sane. It was the look that got me, D'Onofrio got the mixture of uncertainty, questioning, uneasiness and fear spot on! His frustration in the interview with the Msgr and his lawyer when he says "tick-tock" and "How much time do I have left?" was very clear (Eames looked at him) and the look he had when the Msgr asks Goren if he has any frailties of his own. I think Goren feels time passing and maybe I'm keying into this more intensely because I'm saying "How much time does he have left?" Another example of the sense that he feels the constant scrutiny is apparent at the end of the episode when he's in the room by himself, back against the wall, with Eames and the captain watching. I love this entire post. I watched the 4 p.m. rerun today and was also struck by the uncertainty and vulnerability Goren had when he asked the shrink if she thought he was crazy. I think Goren is trying very hard to present himself as together and engaged - and I think he is much more engaged and together than he's been since Season 4 or 5, but the question the shrink (btw, is her name Geisen or Severin? I thought it was announced as Severin but she introduced herself as Geisen or something like that) asked "what are you afraid will happen if you look at yourself?' was key. I think Goren is worried that if he does look inside himself, all of his frailties and insecurities come to the fore, all the Mark Ford Brady baggage, his mom, etc. and I think if he looks at that too closely he fears he may lose his grip on sanity. I also thought it was interesting that that he told her not to walk on eggshells around him and she said "isn't that how you like it?" I never really thought anyone walked on eggshells around him - certainly not Eames, his mother, Ross, Nicole, etc.
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Post by idget on May 9, 2011 20:07:51 GMT -5
Wow, another great episode. Loved it. I was not thrilled with the idea of the psych sessions but that was actually my favorite part. I agree with Lenore that was so well acted by both parties. Goren trying to immediately take control of the situation, he did throw the shrink at first but she quickly recovered. Maybe I didn't understand all the rules to the riddle because it seems very easy to me, all you have to do is ask something like "is this the way to Sesame st"? The angel from heaven would of course say no and the devil's angel would say yes. So am I missing something? I like how Goren's file is as big as Logan's and that wasn't even all of it! I also had to laugh at Eames' comment about being to old for catechism classes, I hate to say this around some of our shippers but it sounds like she is still looking I also had to laugh at the big sofa in the shrinks office, looks plenty big for two people . I never thought Theresa stole the money and felt she was in love or at least felt very sorry for the man who would untimely murder her why else would she sleep with the priest but to give her time to help the guy.
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Post by skittles4me on May 9, 2011 21:05:11 GMT -5
Here is some info about that riddle. (Yeah, it's Wiki but anyway...) Scroll down to LOGIC PROBLEMS Kacesq: I also thought it was interesting that that he told her not to walk on eggshells around him and she said "isn't that how you like it?" I never really thought anyone walked on eggshells around him - certainly not Eames, his mother, Ross, Nicole, etc.
The people who are closest to him don't walk on eggshells, but most people do IMO. Idget: I hate to say this around some of our shippers but it sounds like she is still lookingLOL Don't worry Idget... we managed to spin it! ;D
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Post by idget on May 9, 2011 21:09:11 GMT -5
LOL Don't worry Idget... we managed to spin it! ;D I had no doubts that you would!
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Post by jeffan on May 10, 2011 4:35:52 GMT -5
I agree that the shrink scene was excellent - understated yet very effective.
There were also some good gems scattered about this episode. One example, I especially liked seeing Goren and Eames working together discussing the case - raising questions, suggested theories, captain walking in and asking if they’d been there all night and Eames asking if he’d brought bagels.
I liked the camera-work in this episode especially the panning round when Goren got out the car at the Cathedral School and his eyes settled on the sports poster. You knew then this was a big clue - not only the murderer but also, my speculation, a Goren issue he has to address in the reclamation of his self - remember he just gave up basketball (can’t remember the episode) because his father didn’t turn up for a game. I suspect that’s not the only reason.
The show-runner has stated that he has an overall theme/story arc so there is a connecting thread this series and, and as there are only eight, I do think this episode is chock full of clues. It was obvious in a few of the scenes that Goren was personally shaken.
I shall watch it again to be more specific.
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Leonore
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 145
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Post by Leonore on May 10, 2011 7:28:37 GMT -5
The show-runner has stated that he has an overall theme/story arc so there is a connecting thread this series and, and as there are only eight, I do think this episode is chock full of clues. It was obvious in a few of the scenes that Goren was personally shaken. I shall watch it again to be more specific. I agree that we will see things in each episode. For example, in Rispetto the word "respect": Respect for yourself, respect for your talents. Nyle's wife tells Goren she has let go of her anger and then tells him there is nothing wrong with living "happily ever-after." In Rispetto, the IPO guy admits he's no saint, yet in this episode Theresa is called a saint. This episode is about consolation and where and how we find it. We are shown the just and unjust, the saints and sinners, confessions and penance and above all the loneliness of these characters. All of these people who were busy doing "good works" were ultimately lonely, isolated and empty. Eames said one time that she worked with Batman and Batman IMO was always the most isolated and lonely of the superheroes! Then we also have Goren asking why they don't help Nyle with rehab in Rispetto, but telling the captain here that the sessions he has to attend are a waste of time. And finally, in the session when Paula says the world is a dangerous place. Goren sees it as his job and she sees it as his life. That's why I liked Goren's introduction of the two door riddle and they sit down facing those doors. The doors are his choices: in/out, job/no job, heaven/hell, sane/or not. The questions asked and answered in that room will determine Goren's fate.
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Post by jeffan on May 10, 2011 9:41:55 GMT -5
Excellent observations Leonore.
Anyone know the title of the next episode?
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Post by Moonbeam on May 10, 2011 9:59:18 GMT -5
Leonore, that's my take on the doors too. I hope his fate is recovery. I figured out who Alice was. Mary McCann played Mandy Sherwood, the murdered wife in Badge, possibly the second best episode ever after Cherry Red.
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Post by Patcat on May 10, 2011 10:49:54 GMT -5
I suspect Goren has some fears of insanity. Even with all of his study and the knowledge that he's not doomed to schizophrenia, the fear must have been in his mind much of his life. And he's probably been told so many times that he is crazy that it's hard to discount it. For all of his comments that, "As long as I worry about being crazy, I'm not crazy", it must be a great fear, one that perhaps he worries will be confirmed if he starts probing his psyche too deeply.
Patcat
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