|
Post by Cassie on Oct 12, 2005 19:11:07 GMT -5
but what I remember was Goren thought Elizabeth Hitchens, professor of literature was intriguing. Smart, attractive, socially disposed, one of those "Hmm, potential." When he found out that Elizabeth Hitchens was actually Nicole Wallace, it nipped that in the bud. Thank You
|
|
|
Post by Techguy on Oct 13, 2005 1:30:58 GMT -5
I look at it this way, if either Goren or Nicole had made different choices, they'd be perfect for each other, because no one will understand him like her, nor her like him, and deep down inside, that's what they both crave. And therein lies the main reason why they have not and hopefully NEVER will connect romantically--each made life choices that were the opposite of the other's. Deep understanding they might crave, but not each other--certainly not Det. Goren for Nicole.
|
|
|
Post by Cassie on Oct 13, 2005 4:30:01 GMT -5
Say what you want Techguy, All I am saying is that when Bobby Goren saw Elizabeth Hitchins/Nicole Wallace for the first time. he was
WARM FOR HER FORM!!!
|
|
|
Post by Metella on Oct 13, 2005 7:58:59 GMT -5
ha ha ha warm for her form; I do appreciate humor, wish I could "grow" some of my own.
now back to the debate ......my position on the Debate itself is that we all project wish or fear fulfilment and see in any ambigious things that which we espcially want or DO NOT want to see. So all points of view are valid - we are just in the "this is what I think and why stage" yes? I sense some people may be getting a bit heated that they are being questioned on their stance - well, I say hang in there and stand your ground, but on such a subjective debate, realize there is no right or wrong; so once all reasons are stated, it really ends there, doesn't it?
Now - because I love my own point of view; no way he was attracted to her at all even at first, he was playing her, he underestimated her & was only impressed that she outplayed him. Ah, feels good to say it.
|
|
|
Post by Patcat on Oct 13, 2005 9:23:13 GMT -5
Metalla has a good point, and I can see Goren being upset--very upset--at being outplayed at his own game.
I think there was a bit of attraction when Goren thought she was she was this young, attractive, smart and funny professor of literature, but the minute he knew what she was, any shred of that was gone. Nicole, however, thinks that he is attracted to her; I think that's the only way she really knows how to connect with people--on a sexual level--because of the abuse she suffered.
I think I've posted this thought before, but I find it interesting that Nicole and Alex are not unalike in their physical characteristics.
Patcat
|
|
|
Post by Techguy on Oct 13, 2005 10:14:41 GMT -5
Say what you want Techguy, And so I shall.
I agree with Metella's observation that we tend to see what we want to see, and not see what we don't. You are clearly quite adamant in seeing an attraction between Det. Goren and Nicole that I cannot and admittedly do not want to see--ever. As Metella suggested, both are subjective views, equally valid, and I accept and acknowledge this. There is no right or wrong here, we each have our own personal preferences regarding Goren and Nicole, which is perfectly understandable.
What I DID say in my earlier post is that at the outset in "Anti-Thesis" Goren was intrigued by her intelligence. Again as Metella noted, he was playing her and was impressed that she had outsmarted him at his own game. For me, this kind of respect/admiration about gamesmanship just does not translate into romantic sparks. And so on this basis, I can't see any possibility of a romance between them, given what each knows about the other.
That's why I also said later, they might crave understanding from the other because each knows the other so well. But...and here is the point I want to make...that understanding carries a hefty price, the number one being that Goren being who and what he is, and Nicole being who and what she is, I can't see any possibility of a romantic connection between them. And I hope CI never tries to make me see it.
BTW, I did get a laugh out of your "warm for her form" remark.
|
|
|
Post by maherjunkie on Oct 15, 2005 10:10:03 GMT -5
Geez, you would have thought I suggested we change the flavor of Coke again!
I think there was a moment of attraction in that INITIAL meeting that of course, went away, and no, I don't watch soap operas. (Not that there is anything wrong with that)
The key phrase in my post was "if she was normal". I like to see them fight, I don't know if I want to see her soften.
After watching this ep again, I'm more ticked off at that stupid librarian who thought being in your thirties was middle-aged.
|
|
|
Post by aboutnici on Oct 15, 2005 12:31:35 GMT -5
8-)Darn, everytime I watch this episode, what I really want is to see a "CATFIGHT" between Nicole and Eames!
I can't believe that everybody is debating on the specific relationship between Bobby Goren and Nicole Wallace!
I was right about one thing is I really want to see a catfight between Nicole and Eames!
|
|
|
Post by joanie on Oct 15, 2005 14:30:30 GMT -5
I'll put $5 down on Eames.
|
|
|
Post by NicoleMarie on Oct 15, 2005 20:23:50 GMT -5
Geez, you would have thought I suggested we change the flavor of Coke again! After watching this ep again, I'm more ticked off at that stupid librarian who thought being in your thirties was middle-aged. My favorite part of the entire show was when the librarian said she "touched Nicole's stuff just to bug her"! ;D
|
|
|
Post by aboutnici on Oct 18, 2005 10:49:40 GMT -5
I'll put $5 down on Eames. Well, I've just put down $10 on Eames, too!
|
|
|
Post by Cassie on Oct 18, 2005 21:37:36 GMT -5
......my position on the Debate itself is that we all project wish or fear fulfilment and see in any ambigious things that which we espcially want or DO NOT want to see. So all points of view are valid - Well said…..I think most of you watch the show to dissect the crime. While I watch it to see Superman Goren save the day. I struggle with the little girl in me that sees Det. Bobby Goren as George Reeve’s celibate Superman. And the woman in me that expects that Goren should behave like a man, a stud muffin. I think if Goren was a real person he would not be a good catch for any woman. His mother would always come first. There is a reason why Irene dumped him for Carlos Do I think that Det Goren, wants to go off into the sunset and make babies with Nicole and live happily ever after? NO, I don’t. Do I think the first time he looked at her, he thought…. :-*Yowzzzer …. … Yeah I do…....When he left her penthouse on their first meeting ….was he thinking that….No, he was thinking more on the lines ....Good Thing I had Eames with me, she’s got my back. That woman is a Black Widow Spider Do I think Goren wishes for her to see herself as she really is. Yes, I do, I saw that in this episode when he was telling her why she couldn’t raise Gwen. Is he going to lose sleep over her finding out who she really is? No. Does he sleep with one eye open because of her? Yes, I think he does. I wouldn’t be surprised if Goren had his mother moved from Carmel Ridge. After Nicole let it be known that she knows where his mummy lives. I think Goren wishes for Nicole to deal with her demons in life. I also think he wishes that for most of the perps that comes his way.. Remember when he was explaining to Wally, from the episode Probability about the number “5” being part of his pattern. In the episode The Gift when Goren made the comment to Julian…that he knew he really loved Sylvia. Goren cares for some of the criminals and their motives for what they do. Not all, but some. I think Goren looks at the situation of some of the criminals as if to say: Therefore by the grace of God… I am not in their shoes, and would anyone do something for me if I was.…..And that is what I like about Det. Bobby Goren It’s been awhile since I have seen Anti-Thesis. It is on this Saturday so I plan on recording it. Since I will never ever get it on DVD. Who knows…what I will see this time... What I remember, is whether it be her intellect or her beauty…..Goren like what he first saw.
|
|
|
Post by aanalore on Oct 19, 2005 14:06:15 GMT -5
Nicole was acquitted of her other crimes, wasn't she?
Remember in last year's finale...Eames confronts Nicole's ex-husband about buying her the best lawyers around..and essentially getting her off when she should have been convicted.
Legally, Goren CAN'T re-arrest her for crimes she has already been acquiited of. And it would be up to the DA to prosecute her for any other crimes. No doubt, if Carver told Groen to arrest Nicole as part of a murder case, he would.
|
|
|
Post by trisha on Oct 19, 2005 18:22:53 GMT -5
Yes, she was acquitted on all counts, and if he had enough cause and the opportunity to arrest her, he definitely would have. Cassie, I agree with you about Goren and Nicole. I think Goren is a lonely guy who is looking for someone to fill that void in his life, but she absolutely must meet certain criteria. Part of his criteria is an intellect that can at least keep up with his own, and certainly an appreciation for literature. He saw that in Nicole, plus her obvious physical beauty, when he first met her. I do think that he walked away from their first meeting with a suspicion of her, though. But, had his suspicions been false, I think he still would have sat in on another of her classes. Like you said, he was warm for her form Too bad for him, it seems that a normal life is not for Goren, either.
|
|
|
Post by aboutnici on Oct 20, 2005 11:49:26 GMT -5
Man, I record every "Nicole Wallace" episodes and I can see what some people know!
|
|