javawolf
Rookie
Scatter poems on the floor. Turn the poet out the door.
Posts: 16
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Post by javawolf on Oct 4, 2005 19:48:12 GMT -5
Well, she doesn't seem to be a well person, that much is clear. Honestly, I never liked her. She provides interesting conflict with the characters, were otherwise there wouldn't be angst, etc., but she seems to me to be losing character. Sometime though, I want to reach out and hug her as tightly as I can. She seems so hopelessly lost, she needs a hug don't you think? Well anyway. I understand what LOCIfan is saying, but isn't it two entirely different points? I wonder if the character was given enough thought to be profiled. It's possible that there isn't any psychological state to discribe Nicole. She's just a fictional character.
That's my opinion, I hope I didn't make anyone hate me... I haven't even been here that long.
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Post by Metella on Oct 5, 2005 10:47:53 GMT -5
ok - can someone, hopefully one of you new posters, tell me what horrors you have had in the past that make many of you think you are going to be cyber-skinned alive for giving your honest opinion about things? Or is it some rumors you have heard about specific people here or the board in general? I have to say, I am most often the one out on a limb, and I ENJOY hearing how & why others disagree with me. I learn and sometimes change my opinion when I hear the reasoning behind things.
Take a look at some of the squad room threads, some that touch on totally different political opinions to see how tolerant we are of differing views.
Is this a general internet fear? or a specific fear to this board? Please enlighten me.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Oct 5, 2005 12:28:25 GMT -5
Metella, I'm not new but I will speak up. For once.. LOL!!
It's no one here that makes me paranoid, it comes from being on other CI sites or Vincent fan sites or other boards. I would get torn to shreds for disliking CI shows or some of Vincent's films.
I take a long time here to think out my posts, to think of a way to soften them for fear of being attacked. I like it here and this has been one of the few places I can disagree and critique, in peace. Still, I rarely duelve too deeply because I'm always thinking I'm going to offend someone and then everyone will hate me.
I'm on a handful of CI/Vincent boards. One board I am considering leaving because I do not like the "do or die" attitude there. ( I like that phrase Metalla!)
I've been here nearly a year and still walk on eggshells but not because of anyone here, it's just that little voice in the back of my mind. It's not my personality to fight or get nasty with people. When people do that, conversation over. I'm not going to get into flame wars. Very rarely do I ever et angry enough to flame back.
I think I'll just shut up now and run for cover- again! ;D
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Post by NicoleMarie on Oct 5, 2005 12:31:03 GMT -5
I like this serial killer discussion. ;D
I don't think Nicole s a serial killer. She doesn't stalk people or seek people out to kill. She doesn't kill for the sheer thrill of it. She kills because someone is getting, or will get, in her way.
Sorry if I've repeated what someone already said...
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Post by Criminal Mastermind on Oct 5, 2005 13:10:43 GMT -5
NicoleMarie, I have to let you know how that makes me feel. The reason this board was started was to create a get away from exactly those kinds of unstructured, unreasonable, and largely unmoderated types of boards.
Jethro, Major Hathaway, and I have worked long and hard to create and maintain an open and welcoming environment for everyone, so it bothers me a lot when I see people posting things like "ducks for cover," and "braces for stones." It gives the impression to readers that this is a place where you would have to do that, and it tells us that we're not doing a very good job.
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Post by Patcat on Oct 5, 2005 13:34:36 GMT -5
Scary boards are not limited to LOCI, Goren, and Mr. D'Onofrio discussions. I've been on some (and left) dealing with other subjects. The difference seems to be the presence of two or three people willing to herd the kittens and take care of things. So, kudos to our administrators!
To new people: this is a great board. Just remember that just because someone disagrees with you it doesn't mean they dislike you.
And, to veer back to GROW: I don't think the Evil One fits the pattern of a serial killer. She doesn't use the same method, for one, and her killings are usually for profit of some kind.
Patcat
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Shadow
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 77
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Post by Shadow on Oct 5, 2005 13:37:21 GMT -5
You wanted to know.......... I am careful of what I say when I DO post because of an experience I had on the now defunct Universal board. About a year and a half ago I joined...and I lasted only one day before I left...never to go back again. I was made fun of and criticized for calling VDO by his first name "Vincent."..and for using "Vince4ever " as a signature....I was told I didn't have his permission to refer to him by his first name unless I knew him......and that school kids put Vince4ever on their books etc. I will never forget that welcome I received...... Well that same person plus a few others from that board are here....and this is their territory...so I don't step on their toes.....I haven't ever run into this on any other boards I belong to..........just the Universal one.... Now, I wouldn't leave...I would fight back...and I don't think we want that...so I refrain from what and when I post...... I do have a few friends here that are also on my home board.........VincentDonofrioForum......so I talk to them mostly.........You asked........I answered..... Now off the soap box......lol someone else can have it.. Shadow
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Post by Metella on Oct 5, 2005 13:51:33 GMT -5
Like Mimi - I've started something that needs its own thread - going to be interesting for me, eh?
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Post by jethro on Oct 5, 2005 14:19:06 GMT -5
...and this is their territory...so I don't step on their toes.....I haven't ever run into this on any other boards I belong to..........just the Universal one.... "Their territory"? I don't who "they" are and, frankly, I do not want to know. Firstly, this is not the Universal board. Secondly, all points of view from all members have always been welcomed, and encouraged. When opinions have differed, the members have agreed to disagree. It would make things rather boring, if you all agreed on everything, don't you think? ETA: Disagree all you want. But, please don't disrespect the opinions of other members. To further add: If this is anyone's territory, it is OURS. It does not belong to any poster, old or new. And we, meaning both the moderators and members, have never let an unkind post slide. People who have been mean just to be mean are long gone.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Oct 5, 2005 15:25:56 GMT -5
NicoleMarie, I have to let you know how that makes me feel. Aw, CM, I have to give you he other mods a big kiss for all of your hard work! ! I am overlysensitive and paranoid by nature anyway, and am surely guilty of constantly seeking reaaurance from the board when I disagree or find myself in the minority in discussions. (Shibboleth, Grow, Logan, etc.) Metella asked why some of us are so parnoid, and I tried to give an explantion of why some of us feel that way. I don't mean to accuse or insinuate anything! Now that everything is out in the open, I feel much relieved! And I promise, no more "running for cover" posts! And Shadow, yes, sometimes the Uni was a nightmare at times!!
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 5, 2005 18:33:21 GMT -5
Nicole as a serial killer. hmm
Definitions of serial killer on the Web according to Wikipeoadia which I know is scraping the psychological barrel:
* someone who murders more than three victims one at a time in a relatively short interval wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
* Serial killers are individuals who have a history of multiple slayings of victims who were generally unknown to them beforehand. Their crimes are committed as a result of a compulsion that, in many but not all cases, has roots in the killer's (often dysfunctional) youth, as opposed to those who are motivated by financial gain (e.g. contract killers) or ideological/political motivations (e.g. terrorists). Many times, this compulsion is linked to the individual's sexual drive. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer
Display definitions found in English Fre
she's killed four or more people It's definitately got something to do with her dislike of father figures She had a dysfunctional upbringing to say the least But is it compulsive?
As Locifan pointed out Goren knew and told her that she couldn't help but kill the kid she was mothering and then I think about her motives. As other posters have brought out, she never seemed to enjoy killing but felt it was something that needed to be done in order to protect herself. she always chose the extreme option the way a war survivor in peace time might. But then isn't that compulsive; harkening back to the unprotected, destroyed child that Nicole was?
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javawolf
Rookie
Scatter poems on the floor. Turn the poet out the door.
Posts: 16
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Post by javawolf on Oct 5, 2005 19:43:47 GMT -5
To answer Metella's question-- I am a little nervous partly because I'm new, partly because I'm so much younger than everyone else and partly because the terms I had to read before joining were a little scary. I just don't want to make a mistake and get kicked out before I've been here a week. Anyway, call it paranoid. I won't voice it anymore though, sorry. Ha, ha, this is like a psych session. Hugs all around! As for the discussion. I think Nicole is compulsive in that she does tend to turn on individuals with similar characteristics, but not in a way that would deviate her from any other killer. She kills when it suits her, but it's funny when and why it would suit her to kill the people that remind her of her past...? Father figures as someone mentioned, and people who rememind her of herself as a child. (Her daughter?) Opinion voiced. Go me!
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Post by Metella on Oct 6, 2005 7:24:40 GMT -5
Go JavaWolf ! ra ra ra
and yes, interesting how what on the surface looks like a convenience killing somehow also seems to tie back to her history .... hum .....
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Post by trisha on Oct 6, 2005 10:03:13 GMT -5
Like I wrote before, there are psychologists a psychiatrists who don't agree on exactly what defines a serial killer, but for the most part they do agree that the act of killing itself is what drives a serial killer to seek out victims, and also that they generally don't kill people they know. Nicole only kills people she knows, and she doesn't kill because she enjoys it; she does it because, like LOCIfan wrote, it's the path of least resistance for her. I also don't agree that she seeks out people who tie back into her history. She looks for people who can be manipulated into playing a part to serve her needs. She used Croyden, not to punish a bad daddy, but to punish Goren. It was his bad daddy she was focused on, not her own. And she killed that young woman just to get Goren on the case. That's not the work of a serial killer -- too complicated, time consuming, and WAY too personal. A serial killer who became fixated on a particular person, like Nicole is with Goren, would kill *that person* or some random person that remind the killer of that person so a fantasy about the killing could be resolved. I imagine Nicole does kill people as part of a fantasy wish fulfillment that includes Goren. There's hardly any denying that she's obsessed with him and what he thinks of her. He gave her a little cut that became a gaping wound because she can't stop picking at it, and she's gone to great lengths to prove him wrong. I don't think we can discount this obsession with having a family as one of those attempts to prove him wrong and make him see something else, and I absolutely loved what Goren said to her about her even trying it, " ... that's like an ape learning to eat with a fork and knife." I guess only the next episode will tell if she's really did "grow" and it's really a matter of opinion as to whether or not she could be classified as a serial killer. Agree to disagree and all. I would really like to know if Mr. Balcer would call her one, though ...
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javawolf
Rookie
Scatter poems on the floor. Turn the poet out the door.
Posts: 16
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Post by javawolf on Oct 6, 2005 18:38:30 GMT -5
Hmmm... I'm out of things to add. I think we've just about covered every possible angle, and every fathomable condition. Hmmm.
I can't concentrate, my Mum's watching SVU and I keep pausing to listen. Ah, well.
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