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Post by maherjunkie on Oct 30, 2005 11:52:27 GMT -5
I found this episode extremely disturbing, to say the least. I couldn't even join it until 15 minutes in.
My favorite dramatic moment is when Bobby says "Come on, she probably gets all that crap from her therapist", gets her to open up, and then comforts her.
Favorite light moment: Bobby and that creep laughing at the theme song to "Bonanza". Cute, high-pitched, and sarcastic.
Favorite visual: Bobby in civilian clothes!
Best action moment: Nailing the scum in the cafe.
Catching a rapist:Priceless!
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Post by joanie on Oct 30, 2005 17:26:04 GMT -5
I have to fast forward the scene when the family is being held captive.
Favorite visual: When Bobby goes into the cafe. The combination of VDO's height and that bulky jacket make him look like a giant in the land of the mini-people.
Best action moment: The big guy running through the streets of New York chasing a perp.
The young girl identifying the scumbag by his tattoo: Priceless !
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Post by NicoleMarie on Oct 30, 2005 18:46:28 GMT -5
This was the creepiest CI show ever!
ETA: I don't mean this in a negative way, it's just one CI that makes me cringe because it is very...visceral!
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Post by Patcat on Oct 30, 2005 22:16:59 GMT -5
This is one of my favorite LOCI episodes. The actress playing Maggie Colter is splendid, and her work with Mr. D'Onofrio in the final scene is astounding. It's also good to see Eames being given such strong scenes, and Ms. Erbe's fine work. And I think, for all of his problems and pursuit of the bad guys, Bobby Goren is a good man at heart, something that comes through in this episode.
Patcat
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Post by LOCIfan on Nov 1, 2005 10:06:25 GMT -5
This episode ranks among my top 5 favorites too, Patcat, for all the reasons you mentionl. It's gut-wrenching from the very beginning, has an interesting mystery, and it does have a very big heart. All around satisfying episode.
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Post by janetcatbird on Nov 1, 2005 12:05:24 GMT -5
This was the episode that got me hookd on "Criminal Intent". I had seen bits and pieces of other episodes--"Art" is the one I specifically remember--but watching the detectives at work, especially Goren with the girl in the bedroom, was wha intrigued me and had me start watching. I also remember my parents' reactions to this one, especially watching the Colters when Goren and Eames come to the house. Watching the mother respond to the husband, my father said "Their marriage is over, it's only a matter of time." I thought the actor and actress did very well in that.
--Catbird
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Post by Patcat on Nov 1, 2005 13:13:13 GMT -5
Yes, I can't imagine the marriage surviving this. Although I don't see the father as a horrible man, but as a weak man (ironically and horribly enough the kidnapper/rapist has him pegged pretty well).
Patcat
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Post by Cassie on Nov 1, 2005 16:36:00 GMT -5
Good Point Catbird, about the hubby, possibly losing his family, after it was all said and done.
I know Mr Colter had issues with his father, meeting up to his dad's expectations...but, what about his wife? What part could she have played in it? Did she drive him, to bring home the big bucks, so they could afford that extravagant lifestyle? Something I guess we will never know. But it would make a great movie of the week on how they survived it all.
I loved the mother-in-laws vintage hats, Gorens fannel shirt. And the look in Eames eyes as Deakins said to her. "I read the report, it was a good shooting"
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mischa
Rookie
Lobster Samerurai
Posts: 6
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Post by mischa on Nov 7, 2005 5:06:07 GMT -5
I never thought that the little girl would be hurt like that. I watched the screen, and prayed for it not to happen. It was a good episode, even though I was disgusted with what that girl went through.
* GRAPHIC LANGUAGE USED * Please don't read if you will offended...[/i]
At the end I couldn't help yelling, "You got that bastard, girl!" She really showed him: He could destroy her innocence, screw with her mind, but she still got him! He always thought woman were weak. He could use them, and never get caught, but look who brought him down! I loved that poetic justice.[/color][/font]
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Post by trisha on Nov 7, 2005 12:33:56 GMT -5
ITA, mischa! And Goren would agree, as well. I especially liked when he insinuated that the rapist got his battle scar from some poor woman he attacked defending herself with a pairing knife, and drove home the point that the id from of the tattoo came from the girl, "she got you."
I often forget how powerful the end of this episode is because I get so caught up in the horror of how it begins. Definitely one of the best of the series.
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Post by blucougar57 on Nov 7, 2005 23:29:16 GMT -5
I personally believe that moment, when Goren gets right into the face of Matic and says those words - 'She got you', is one of the definitive moments of season 1 CI. Goren shows real emotion when he enters into the game with Matic, and his satisfaction when he told Matic he'd been positively identified by Maggie was so apparent. It's the best example of Goren getting physical with a perp without... well, getting physical. Sorry, not explaining myself too well. End of day, not thinking straight... It's a great episode, anyway.
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Nov 12, 2005 13:27:55 GMT -5
Yeah, he kind of steps on Alex's toes a little during that interview, LOL the way he waves his hand dismissively, like he's trying to wave away an offensive smell LOL. But he knew just what that girl needed at that time... some 'tough therapy' she was probably tired of everyone saying 'its okay to feel this way' or 'i inderstand how you feel' when in fact, they dont no matter how many yrs of shrink classes they take... they didnt have to live through it, to for someoen to force themsevles on you is a horrible thing... esp when you're 14yrs old. i can only imagine what she went through mentally. what she NEEDED was for someone to understand, TRUELY understand what she went thought & how it ws making her feel. In the end he gave her what i think she needed all along... a hug i have the DVD set of season 1 & it still hurts me to hear the mother pleading w/ the kidnappers 'she's just a little girl... please...!' Yes... its always nice to see VDO in something other than a suit & tie every once & a while. ;D
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Post by Observer2 on Nov 13, 2005 19:29:33 GMT -5
This is a difficult episode for me to write about, but I agree that it was remarkably well done. The initial rape hinted at the brutality of such crimes, but it was the later scene, where he puts his hand on her leg, that captures something rarely portrayed effectively, or even spoken of – the sadistic exercise of complete power over the victim that is often a large part of sexual crimes against children. The understanding that went into the writing of this episode, and the power and sensitivity of the acting and directing, were all simply outstanding.
I usually don’t identify much with stories about stranger rape, because they don’t usually have much in common with my own experience. But from the scene where he put his hand on her leg I was hooked in, identifying very strongly with Maggie. So for me, the scene where Goren breaks through her defenses and gets her to face her experience was both wrenching and cathartic. And, at the end, Goren’s focus was on *Maggie’s* power to bring her attacker to justice – there’s something important about that that is hard to explain. So many people get caught up in their own drive to protect/defend/avenge the children, or to get the rapist locked up to protect other children. Goren clearly had those feelings – and vented them just a bit with the armlock – but his focus remained on the fact that Maggie had taken back her power and turned the tables on her attacker. That was powerful.
It’s still so difficult for me to understand how the same team that produced this episode also produced Death Roe, where incest is attributed to ‘gluttony’ – as though the ability to de-humanize his own child to the point of using her as a sex object was merely a matter of indulging his sexual appetites – and the victim is portrayed in a remarkably negative way without giving any context or explanation for her (to most lay people) incomprehensible behavior.
But though, in my opinion, the quality of writing in the two episodes differs drastically, the quality of the acting is the same. In both episodes the detectives, and Goren in particular, hit all the right notes. In both cases, Goren is so emotionally attuned, sensitive and appropriate in his responses that I can’t help but think that D’Onofrio’s preparation for his work in The Cell must continue to give him an exceptional depth of insight into the experiences and emotional states of such victims.
Somewhere on this forum is a thread discussing whether television has value beyond mere entertainment. The short version of my position is yes. I know that, back in the 60s, one series, the two actors in it, and one other actor, by the depth and truth of what they portrayed, helped me survive my childhood. And over the years I’ve met a striking number of abuse survivors and ACOAs (adult children of alcoholics) who cite the same series and the same three actors as having helped them. Such images – and now I’m including the images of how Goren interacted and worked with the victims in these two shows – such images can form positive psychological templates in people who desperately need them, and can form the bases for reparative psychological processes through which victims can begin to heal.
There was an episode of that series in the 60s that gave me a template, a vivid internal archetypal image, for healing from the psychologically shattered condition I was in. The key element of that template was facing the thing I most feared. In a similar way, because of the depth and emotional honesty of the acting, the scene in Homo Homini Lupus where Goren breaks through Maggie’s defenses and gets her to face the thing she most fears – the horror and pain of her own experience – that scene, in my opinion, has the potential to help trauma victims dare to imagine facing their own unbearable memories.
To my mind, good television is always more than mere entertainment. It’s a modern form of the ancient art of storytelling. And storytelling, at its best, has always had the power to affect people’s hearts and minds.
Homo Homini Lupus is storytelling at its best.
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Post by willow2tree on Nov 14, 2005 11:15:48 GMT -5
My only concern about this episode is that I didn't find it realistic that the girl (Maggie?) who was raped would let Goren hug her. That soon after being raped, I question whether she would let a strange man, especially one as big as Goren, touch her. I was a victim of child abuse, both physical and sexual, and to this day (I'm 45) I don't like strangers touching me, and I shy away even from my husband if he comes up behind me unexpectedly and touches me without letting me know he is there first. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Post by Observer2 on Nov 14, 2005 21:37:46 GMT -5
Willow2tree,
I’m also a survivor of multiple forms of abuse, including sexual abuse. I’m sorry you had to deal with such terrible experiences, and I hope your recovery is going well.
I don’t watch this episode often, and it’s been quite a while since the last time I did, so it’s possible I’m mis-remembering things. But, to the best of my memory, it seems to me that there are a couple of things that might bring that hug into the realm of possibility. However, if you are easily triggered by old images, you might not want to read the rest of this post. I’d much rather just agree to disagree than take a chance on triggering flashbacks.
One thing that comes to mind about Maggie is that this was probably the only time in her life that she was seriously hurt by a man. Her father is portrayed as weak, but apparently caring. Her grandfather clearly has a soft spot for his grandchildren. She probably has a long history of feeling safe and comforted when being hugged by a large (from the child’s perspective), protective man (as a young child she probably did not register her father’s weakness, and would likely have experienced him as protective). [Potential trigger in the next sentence – I felt a bit queasy at the image myself.] Feeling safe and protected in the embrace of a large, powerful father figure is a normal childhood experience, no matter how un-imaginable that might seem to some of us.
I don’t know much at all about the reactions of teenagers to stranger rape. Among adult women, judging from what I’ve read, and what I’ve heard first-hand from survivors, different women react to stranger rape in different ways. Not all generalize to the point of having a traumatic reaction to non-sexual touch from all men (though, as you described, many are easily startled or frightened by unexpected touch, even with someone they trust).
And if I remember correctly, the scene where Goren breaks through Maggie’s defenses occurs when a bit of time has passed after she returned home. She’s been to see a therapist, so I think we’d be talking in terms of at least a week, quite possibly more.
She’s young enough that in many ways she’s still a child, and all that time she’s been desperately needing to vent her pain and grief, and desperately needing to be comforted – but she can’t allow it.
Goren did a number of things in the process of breaking down her defenses, and one of them was to break down her identification with the “strong” attacker and substitute himself as a figure that was stronger than her attacker, but wanted to protect her, rather than hurt her.
And one thing that may be key, if I’m remembering correctly, is that I believe she moves towards him, seeking the comfort of being held, rather than him moving towards her to hug her. If he had reached for her it might have triggered the traumatic fear; but if she moved towards him, seeing him as a powerful protective figure (an archetypal stand-in for her father), then it makes sense to me that being held could once again seem comforting, rather than terrifying.
All of this only makes sense to me because she was *not* abused over time by the man who was supposed to be her protector. She had a baseline of feeling safe with protective father figures, and Goren’s size might even have helped to re-evoke that in her, by echoing how large and protective her father seemed when she was little.
These are just my thoughts on the issue. I certainly don’t pretend to be an expert on how teenagers react to stranger rape. But for me, the scene made emotional sense. Beyond that, I can’t really say.
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