Nicole Wallace: Quasi-Moriarty or Boring Soap Dish

[trisha]

Techguy wrote:

Thanks for the welcome. At the risk of falling into "substance abuse" so early after my arrival, I am going to reply to something from earlier on in this thread:

on Mar 15th, 2004, 5:16pm, Observer2 wrote:
"I think Nicole is a well-done character, and I?ve liked what they?ve done with her so far. My only concern is that they may not know when to stop. I understand Nicole being obsessed with Goren ? they set that up very well. I just hope the writers aren?t obsessed with Nicole!"


I posted at the Universal site that I hope Elizabeth/Nicole's expected appearance in "Great Barrier" early next season will be her last. Since Goren is on to her tricks, her usefulness as a villain/perp is just about over. I also hope the writers don't go to the E/N well too often to come up with new stories, so maybe it's time to call it a day in the GB episode.

And since she has shown her ability to wriggle out of all her legal troubles (acquitted on all counts), I won't be satisfied if she is merely arrested and convicted for any new offenses. I really don't want her lurking out there, waiting to pounce to do her dirty deeds.

In order to insure E/N won't be around to go after Goren or anyone else, I am sort of hoping she is killed off, then the writers of course would have to stop using her in any future stories. The only question is, should it be Goren to do it or Eames? If memory serves me correctly, Eames is the only one of the partners who has killed someone in the line of duty, at least on screen--wasn't it in the premiere episode "One"?

Well, these are my initial musings. If anyone wants to continue, or move the conversation to the General Discussion parlor, I'm willing.

The episode in which Eames kills a man is Homo Homini Lupus (the Serbian kidnapper episode.) I don't care if things get uneven in the killing department, I'd rather see Eames take Nicole out, too. If Goren kills her, he will end up taking a moment to brood over her like it's a damn shame that she had to die instead of becoming rehabilitated into a good person and model citizen who loves children and walks old ladies across the street. I don't want to see that. I want a fast and guilt free ending to Nicole, but somehow I don't think that's the plan.

[Techguy]

trisha said:

The episode in which Eames kills a man is Homo Homini Lupus (the Serbian kidnapper episode.)

I guess my memory isn't as good as I think it is. Thanks for the correction, Trisha, and also for moving the topic to a more appropriate location.

trisha said:

I want a fast and guilt free ending to Nicole, but somehow I don't think that's the plan.

Especially if "Great Barrier" shows up during a sweeps period.

I admit I am concerned also that the great E/N saga is going to be milked for all it's worth until the old cow runs dry.

However, if the end of E/N is quick and painless, then the writers won't be tempted to bring her out whenever they feel they need a jolt of dramatic tension. Better to get E/N out of the way, but I don't think that will happen either because keeping E/N around gives the writers a life preserver to hang on to.

[Patcat]

I like the idea of Nicole/Elizabeth/evil one--the idea of Moriarty as a sweet seeming, blonde, blue eyed all white angel. In practice, she doesn't work as well, partly because her plans are too elaborate. I don't hold her ineffectiveness against Olivia D'Abo--I blame the writers.

I think her effectiveness is pretty much at an end as well, but I hope she's given a good exit.

Patcat

[Metella]

I think D'Abo does a great job - doe eyed & nasty she has down. It is the character that is so stale it is crumbling.

(sorry - ignor my other post, I was reading the threads from the top down, so my comment should have been here & I am too damn lazy to move it.)

[Patcat]

I also think that Goren is pretty much over any sympathy or identification he ever had with the Evil One. His entanglement with her actually might have had some benefits--I think he's a bit more cautious, a bit more aware of the fact that he can make mistakes. He's learned from the encounter, and when he meets her again, he won't be unprepared. Goren's not eager for the encounter, though. I don't think he views this as some sort of superhero/supervillain deal, and if he ever viewed the Evil One in a romantic light that went away pretty quickly.

She, on the other hand, can only relate to people on a sexual or mercenary basis. I doubt her marriage will last long, and her obsession with Goren will likely be her downfall.

Patcat

[jaquetta]

I think it would be interesting to have Goren have a .........[why can I never think of the word I want? not alter-ego, nemesis!] nemesis. I don't mind Nicole being said person (very, very occasionally) but I do hope that if they go to that well again, they write her either more manipulative and cunning - not to mention intelligent, or they don't bother. She's no Moriarity to me.

[trisha]

velocity wrote:

I think I am another member of the few who likes the E/N vs Goren saga. For me, it makes him human to appear vulnerable at times. It also offers an opportunity for some out of uniform(suit/tie) scenes. There is something eternal in this struggle of good and evil. They are both strong actors and boil very nicely together. She is meant to be his intellectual match and it shows. Darth Vader and Obe One K struggle for supremacy.

As long as the approaches are fresh, I like their interaction.

I have only seen them act together in VoG and her part was not meaty enough. I like their chemistry and have always hoped they would do something together where she is not merely the supporting character. Olivia uses facial expressions and expressive eyes to convey her emotion. She has a more contained acting style. Vincent's bold gestures and in you face interaction compliment her technique.

I look forward to The Great Barrier

darmok wrote:

I didn't care for the E/N storyline simply because of the second episode. It was just a rehash of the much more interesting Anti-Thesis. I just hope they get away from the formula used in the first two episodes. If they actually make her seem like a nemesis rather than an annoyance, it could redeem the storyline.

Patcat wrote:

I've posted elsewhere that my main problem is that the Evil One has, so far, been better as an idea than as executed. Her plots are far too complicated and depend too much on everyone doing exactly what she wants. But the idea of this petite, charming, always dressed in white, blonde woman as a Moriarty figure is a brilliant one, and I think D'Abo does as well as she can with the role.

I also think it's interesting that Eames and the Evil One are both small blondes.

Moving it on over ... Velocity, I very much agree on the good chemistry and complimentary styles of D'Abo and D'Onofrio, but I don't think Nicole is the Vader to Goren's Obi Wan. There is, of coarse, a struggle between good and evil, and even the mirror image between the characters, but she is no match for Goren, and that is where the similarities fall short of that type of storyline, and thank dog, because in the end, HOLMES SPOILER WARNING Vader and Moriarty kill Obi Wan and Holmes, and we simply cannot have that in this series, can we? Spoiler End.

darmok and Patcat, ITA, as long as the spoiler above does not apply

[Patcat]

SHERLOCK HOLMES SPOILER ALERT!!!






Ah, but it turns out Moriarty didn't kill Holmes. (Far as that goes, I'm not sure Vader killed Obi Wan--as a friend of mine commented about Obi Wan, "Dead, he gets around more than I do alive.")

The truth is that Moriarty is a great villain largely because Doyle says he is. Doyle created him to have a worthy opponent to kill Holmes off. The professor has since gotten far more press than he deserves. He actually only appears in two stories, and that's stretching because in one of those he's very much offstage.

I'd like some resolution of the Evil One story, though, and I like the idea of Eames being the one to do it.

Patcat

[trisha]

Oh, I thought Moriarty was to blame for Holmes death, I guess I should probably read the stories ;D But as far as Star Wars goes, Obi Wan's spirit may get around, but he has no body to go with it, and that is because Vader slew him.

I don't mind the idea of Goren having enemies, and I really enjoy the literary references in many of the stories, but I can't stand the thought of the writers trying to fit Goren or this series into any type of mold. A worthy opponent is one thing, but to call that opponent his Moriarty (or his Vader) comes with all sorts of other implications. After all, how much like Sherlock is Goren, really? In A Study in Scarlet, Holmes is described as a man who cares nothing for knowledge for the sake of knowledge, in fact, he even discredits the notion, comparing it to junk in an attic. In that respect, and many others, Goren is not anything like Sherlock at all.

What he is seems to be a real mixture of many fictional detectives, and maybe even some real ones, combined with a few new twists for an all new character. This is the major reason I hate the idea of a Moriarty-esque character for Goren, and it's probably why the story really doesn't work well, either.

[Patcat]

Ah, but dont believe everything Holmes says (g).

Seriously, Goren owes a lot to Holmes, but Rene Balcer has stated in several interviews that Goren also owes something to Georges Simenon's Maigret and a Japanese detective whose name escapes me.

Patcat

[velocity]

Maigret, Holmes, Moriarty, what-ever, it is the universal struggle I enjoy. The test they place on each other that makes the encounter engaging. E/N being forced to look into her own soul and history and face the demons that made the she-wolf she is today is the drama. Goren's struggle to protect his fragile private world, to protect any mutilation of his character. I mean, no matter how much you would like to deck her, play by his inner rules, is also a test for him. In other words, as they struggle, they are in they're in their personal curcibles (sp).

If written well, it is good story.

[BegToDiffer]

Patcat-good insight when you said you thought her marriage wouldn't last. I was caught off guard when GB finally aired, and there it was. I guess I thought that Gavin was so taken by Nicole he would put up with just about anything. And I actually thought she cared at least a little bit for him. What was I thinking??

[NicoleMarie]

Nicole Wallace: Quasi-Moriarty or Boring Soap Dish?

Boring Soap Dish. Definetely. They didn't really accomplish anything with that last show she was on. She just got away again. They tried to make her look worn out and weak which seemed odd since she was so mean and evil the other times. The only thing we're gonna get is more Nicole. Oh goody. (Saracasm) hehe But that's ok. At least she doesn't keep coming on every week. That would sincerly suck!

[Metella]

Nicolemarie - YES, that is it, they really didn't get anywhere with this episode now that she lives, did they? It was a big unproductive circle .... and they are back to where they were before it ever aired.

Nothing gained but some filler time in an episode.
Blah.

[Sirenna]

I feel like I'm running around threads today only to end up agreeing with Metella and NicoleMarie but yes, the third installment was definately the weakest. It makes me wonder how the fourth installment will look. I'm having trouble figuring out how the next one can centre around anything other than whether or not she was abused and how Goren relates to that draws it out of her which would just be another repeat of installment two.