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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Mar 8, 2005 11:14:44 GMT -5
i found my sherlock holmes book while moving a few weeks ago & was reading a story called 'A Scandal in Bohemia' & it occured to me that there was a likeness btw the female antagonist (sorry of its spelt wrong, i have never been noted as a great speller) 'Irene Norton' & Nicole Wallace from CI. In fact, Holmes respectfully calls her 'THE woman' because she is the only one who (i believe) out witted him. I cant help but wonder if Irene was the backdrop to the character Nicole, given that Dick Wolf is a huge Sherlock Holmes fan. What to you guys think?
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Post by Patcat on Mar 8, 2005 22:00:24 GMT -5
Hm, it's possible, but Irene Adler is an ambivalent character, one who I think is sinned against as much as sinning. She's an intelligent character, but not a master criminal and not necessarily evil. Moriarty and Nicole are evil.
Patcat
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Mar 9, 2005 10:56:25 GMT -5
minus the evil part, but she & nicole have lots of silularities though, there's no denying that. parhaps nicole is a cross between moriarty & Irene?
all right! i'm a silver shield investigator now!!
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Post by Patcat on Mar 9, 2005 11:23:03 GMT -5
Kawaiidragon;
Could you specify some of the similarities you see between Irene Adler and Nicole? I'm not trying to be belligerent here, but I'm very resistant to the idea of Nicole being like Irene, and I'd like to know your take on this.
Patcat
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Post by Metella on Mar 9, 2005 12:06:35 GMT -5
congrats on the "promotion"
I haven't read this stuff - so I'll just have to stay out of this discussion. Metella = Anti-Nicole anything
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Post by Techguy on Mar 9, 2005 13:40:09 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat with Metella. So while I'll also stay out of the discussion, I'm interested in the debate between posters who know more about the characters in Sherlock Holmes stories than I do.
Techguy *also in the anti-Nicole camp*
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Post by Patcat on Mar 9, 2005 14:20:08 GMT -5
I suppose, in the interest of full disclosure, that I should reveal one of the reasons I don't like equating Nicole with Irene Adler is that I like Irene Adler--she's tough, smart, and generally appealing. I do not like Nicole, so this may be a visceral reaction on my part.
Patcat (gosh, how many times do you get to use the word "visceral"?)
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Mar 15, 2005 12:34:36 GMT -5
Ok sorry LOL its been a while sence i've posted i know, but the weather's been so nice & i've been riding my horse as much as i could before the nasty weather came back (which was today grrrr ). As for nicole being 'like' irene i might have over stated a tiny bit. I just thought in reading the story that she might have been an inspriation for the creation of nicole. As for why; just the way she always seemed to stay 'just' out of holmes & watson's reach, how she used moriarty (even though he was the evil one) & then just disappeared.
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Post by Patcat on Mar 15, 2005 13:38:35 GMT -5
Oh, gee, I'm going to come across as obsessive about this (but I guess I am), but Irene Adler and Moriarty do not appear together in the original Sherlock Holmes stories. She appears only in A SCANDAL IN BOHEMIA, and there's perhaps too passing references in later stories.
Moriarty appears in THE FINAL PROBLEM and THE VALLEY OF FEAR, and, again, there are a few passing references.
But they never appear in story together.
Unlike Nicole, who loves to torment Goren, Irene Adler really has no interest in Holmes beyond getting away from him.
Patcat
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M
Rookie
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist
Posts: 24
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Post by M on Mar 23, 2005 3:06:15 GMT -5
Cut kawaiidragonfoe821 a break Patcat, clearly he/she is not an avid holmes follower, a holmes follower would never have gotton Irene's surname incorrect. Intelect wise Nicole is definatly up there with Irene, they are both very clever and take no joy in being outsmarted. Unfortunatly we never learn that much detail about Irene to compare the two very thoroughly, yes she went in for blackmail and used her apperance to attrack men for her own devious purpose, but the idiot fell in love and ruined a perfectly good career in blackmail. Nicole and Irene have one major similarity, they both allowed their emotions to distroy them.
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Post by Patcat on Mar 23, 2005 9:36:19 GMT -5
I hope I didn't come across as rude or arrogant to Kawaiidragon--that was not my intent at all.
My main objection to comparing Irene Adler to Nicole is that I view Nicole as evil, while I see Irene Adler as attempting to protect herself. There is a considerable debate about Irene Adler among Sherlock Holmes readers--some (and I'm in this camp) view her as a victim dealing with a difficult situation, while others see her as a villainness. But I think that even as a villain she's far less malevolent than Nicole.
And my apologies if this is boring the heck out of anyone with little or no interest in this.
Patcat
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Post by Metella on Mar 23, 2005 12:59:26 GMT -5
I'm so not a holmes fan; but I have read this post - No, Patcat - I think you made it clear you were posting from YOUR knowledge and over-enjoyment of this & already made it clear you were not coming down on kwaliidragon, but just going further into why you thought the way you did. K-dragon has been here long enough to feel comfortable to ask you if there was any ill feeling, I would suppose.
I don't think any ill will was meant OR felt from your posts. I think you should retract the appology! ;D
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Post by Patcat on Mar 23, 2005 14:11:06 GMT -5
I should apologize for apologizing, eh?
You know, I'm so passive aggressive I've been known to do that (g).
Patcat
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Post by domenicaflor on Sept 7, 2005 14:52:18 GMT -5
FYI regarding Olivia D'Abo, who plays E/N: Olivia D'Abo is going to be starring in "The Odd Couple" on Broadway with Nathan Lane and Matthew Broderick. For details see Yahoo: news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050907/ap_en_ot/fall_broadwayIf Ms. D'Abo is busy with what looks to be a long and prosperous theatrical run, it may give another reason for Balcer and Co. to not bring back Elizabeth-Nicole after her Season 5 appearance in the upcoming episode "Grow". D.
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Post by BegToDiffer on Sept 8, 2005 12:02:57 GMT -5
I wish Olivia a smashing success on Broadway and anywhere else! That would make her to busy to come back and haunt us.
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