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Post by NikkiGreen on Oct 9, 2004 21:01:18 GMT -5
Trisha and Observer, I'd be more than happy to share my tape with the two versions. Since the voting is only open for about three days after the airings, it won't do either of you any good in that respect. You know, snail mail and all.......  |
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Post by Techguy on Oct 10, 2004 12:47:02 GMT -5
As Observer and some others have pointed out, there are aspects of the Nicole voting that are problematic despite the intriguing nature of the overall concept. The major problem I have is that the voting most likely will be skewed by two factors inherent in the process:
1) the selective nature of the voting that would favor those who have computers capable of handling the audio and video of the two endings
2) voting will be open to anyone and everyone--not just the fans with a deep understanding and appreciation of CI, but also fringe viewers or those who are only watching the Nicole episode because of the novelty of the poll involved
Don't get me wrong--I don't want this to sound like I would prefer that only those who are up to certain viewership standards should be allowed to vote. Of course, anyone and everyone who wants to vote should be able to do so--but also have the means at their disposal to be able to evaluate both endings on their own merits.
However, I don't believe that the route CI will take, or the development of Det. Goren and the other characters, should be determined by a mass vote which could include many viewers with little background knowledge or appreciation of what has gone on before.
If we were talking statistical possibilities, then yes either ending is equally likely. But this is not the world of statistics, it's the world of art. And somehow I bristle at the notion that the artistic progression of CI and Det. Goren might be in the hands of the artistic and creatively challenged masses with a fondness for "Desperate Housewives" and "Survivor."
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Post by Observer2 on Oct 10, 2004 15:37:52 GMT -5
Trisha and Observer, I'd be more than happy to share my tape with the two versions... Thanks, Nikki – I would really appreciate that, and I expect Trisha would, too. You’re always very generous with sharing things others haven’t seen yet. So that solves the issue of never getting to see the other ending for me and Trisha, which is great for us. But the underlying problem still exists. Techguy, Obviously, we share some of the same concerns about the selectivity of who can see both versions before voting. I also have a feeling that – unless there’s a fairly sophisticated system for keeping it at “one viewer, one vote” – there’s going to be a lot of multiple voting. If that’s the case, I can virtually guarantee which way the vote will go. The people who want what’s best for the show are likely to vote once. The people who have an intense, emotionally-driven (and in many cases, fantasy-love-for-Goren-driven) dislike for Nicole are likely to vote multiple times – both in the hopes of getting their wish and as a venting of their emotional reactions to the character – which adds up to a lot of votes. On the other hand, I did find Nick5oh’s perspective thought provoking. He’s shown a pretty solid understanding of how things work in the entertainment industry in the past, so I think he’s likely to be right about whether this came from marketing or from the creative side. And if this did originate with Balcer having a sense that either path was creatively valid, then I’m not so concerned about the outcome of the vote. The voters will decide which experience Goren has to deal with, but they won’t decide anything about the nature of *how* he deals with it. That will be determined by the nature of his character, just as if Balcer had chosen that path without a vote – and if Balcer had strongly preferred one path over the other, then I guess we wouldn’t be having this vote to begin with. And when I think of this coming originally from the writers, then I find that there really is something interesting, to me at least, in the interaction of the characters with the “intent” of anonymous strangers. It’s almost an added touch of realism. If Goren were real, he wouldn’t have some benevolent writer deciding the outcome in every situation. Even for those who believe in a benevolent deity watching over us, there are also the effects of other people’s free will – sometimes exercised with criminal intent. So here’s an element thrown in, not so much of random chance, but of the influence of other people’s emotional drives, affecting which outcome Goren has to deal with. I can imagine there being a particular kind of creative satisfaction in that, very parallel to the kinds of performance art that incorporate some active audience participation (not just receptive involvement), with the actors playing off of the audience input. |
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 10, 2004 16:38:51 GMT -5
I find that there really is something interesting, to me at least, in the interaction of the characters with the “intent” of anonymous strangers. That is an interesting comment and yes we are in the picture to a degree. There's also a pioneering, innovative aspect that I admire. But Wolf, himself, said he doesn't think you can make a show based on what the audience wants, so I'm not convinced that creative did win out against marketing pressures. They compromised but I bet it was the bottom line that proposed the idea in the first place. The pre-written endings mean the creative integrity is maintained no matter what the outcome and well, whew, what a relief because the intent of anonymous strangers taking the character anywhere is a scary thought. So we vote. Big deal. Because it's all pre-written, creatively nothing is changed by us so it's inclusionary but it's not interactive. But Balcer and Wolfe adriotly manage to maintain quality control. It's like yearly town hall meetings at work; highly publicized, everyone gets to throw in their two cents. At the end of the day, nothing has really changed but the head guys can say they tried to hear from everyone. What about some real input from us - something like the greenlight project? People can create a story, character online and the show can weed through all the chaff to include or adapt what they want from us. That would be much closer to performance art. |
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Post by malocchio on Oct 10, 2004 22:17:44 GMT -5
Has Nicole appeared in every season?
I'm asking because I'm wondering just how much the outcome of this vote will effect the direction of the series and Goren's character.
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Post by Techguy on Oct 10, 2004 22:20:43 GMT -5
Malocchio,
Nicole has been in two episodes prior to her return in "Great Barrier" and both were in the second season. The episodes are "Anti-Thesis" and "A Person of Interest."
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Post by LOCIfan on Oct 11, 2004 2:14:53 GMT -5
Performance art?!!! huh. As someone who watched Annie Sprinkle shove a yam up herself and then invited audience members to come and take a look at her cervix, this doesn't seem to fit the bill. In fact, the hallmark of performance art in the U.S. has always been extremely anti-commercial.
nick50h, are you sure you don't work for NBC? Sure, artists have always had an eye toward the marketplace, but times have changed. Last time I checked, LOCI was picked up for two seasons. So why now? Why this pandering for ratings at this particular point in time?
Seems to me like a ploy intended solely to detract viewers from Desperate Housewives, which beat our LOCI with a huge stick in the ratings.
If Balcer et al agree with the ploy, fine. It's their version of being more commercial to save their skins. But it's still a publicity ploy, and not at all analogous to performance art.
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Post by trisha on Oct 11, 2004 9:37:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I wish they would show desperate housewives on Saturdays instead. I caught the rerun of the pilot episode Saturday night and actually liked it. It's pretty funny.
I liked watching Terry Hatcher shoving peanut butter, crisco and popsicle sticks in her kitchen sink to get the hot plumber across the street to come over and lay some pipe.
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Post by NikkiGreen on Oct 11, 2004 10:45:00 GMT -5
I doubt it'll get moved to Saturday nights as the three networks don't want to pay for original programming for Saturday nights. That was the reason given for cancelling "The District". The repeat didn't do so well. It got trounced by a SVU repeat and came in third for the timeperiod. The pilot was very funny. CTV also shows DH, at 7:00PM. Last night's episode wasn't anywhere as good as the pilot. It only had a few interesting moments for me. According to the overnight ratings, DH took a bit of a dip over last week (CI came in second). |
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Post by Observer2 on Oct 11, 2004 19:07:20 GMT -5
Performance art?!!! huh. As someone who watched Annie Sprinkle shove a yam up herself and then invited audience members to come and take a look at her cervix, this doesn't seem to fit the bill. Sounds more like exhibitionism than genuine performance art to me. Given that example, I’m certainly not convinced that your idea of what might be a form of performance art is any more reasonable than mine. |
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Post by Sirenna on Oct 11, 2004 19:57:29 GMT -5
Performance art?!!! huh. As someone who watched Annie Sprinkle shove... It's a perfomance, sure, but is it art..? |
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Post by domenicaflor on Oct 13, 2004 11:24:34 GMT -5
It looks like NBC is addressing the concerns about potential multiple voting/hacking/fraud as best they can, and invoking quite a bit of legalese in the process. I am glad that they are preventing multiple votes, for the reasons many have mentioned. As much as I enjoy D'Onofrio's work, and as much as I am glad that he received the TV Guide Award for best male actor in a drama 2004, I think that vote was stacked by loyal fans voting on a daily basis. D. *********************** www.nbc.com/nbc/Law_&_Order:_Criminal_Intent/viewers_choice/rules.shtmlWatch Law & Order: Criminal Intent on October 17th, 2004 for a chance to vote on whether the Nicole Wallace character lies or dies. Voting is simple and easy. To vote, simply watch Law & Order: Criminal Intent on October 17th, 2004 and see if Nicole Wallace lives or dies on your NBC station! Two different endings, one with Nicole Wallace surviving and one with Nicole Wallace dying will be broadcast across the United States. Then at 7:00 pm PST log onto NBC.com to watch both endings and vote for your favorite one. Voting will end on October 20th, 2004 at 9:00 am PST. The ending which receives the most votes will determine Nicole Wallace's fate on Law & Order: Criminal Intent. You must be 18 years of age or older as of October 17, 2004 to vote in the Criminal Intent Viewer's Choice. Each person may vote only once and must be the registered subscriber of the email account from which the vote is made. Votes received after 9:00 am PST on October 20th, 2004 will not be counted. NBC Universal, Inc. ("NBC") may extend the voting deadline or terminate the voting process in light of breaking news or other events in NBC's sole discretion. Votes will be declared made by the authorized account holder of the e-mail address submitted at time of the vote. NBC shall have the right to void any vote that appears, in NBC's sole discretion, to be an automated or duplicate vote and/or any other "hack" exceeding the one person one vote rule or otherwise interfering with the administration of the vote. NBC reserves the right in its sole discretion right to withdraw the transmission of any such vote for any reason or permanently disqualify from any vote any person it believes has violated these rules. Moreover, NBC may, in its sole discretion, terminate the competition and/or voting at any point and declare a winner based on the votes up to that point, if it appears that the voting process has been so distorted by hacking or other interference that the results would not reflect actual valid votes should the competition and/or voting continue. NBC and their respective officers, directors, employees, parent, subsidiaries and affiliates assume no responsibility for: (1) any injury or damage to any person's computer or system, including emails, relating to or resulting from entering or downloading materials or software in connection with this vote; or (2) telecommunications, network, electronic, technical or computer failures of any kind; or (3) for inaccurate transcription of voting information; or (4) errors in any promotional or marketing materials; or (5) any human or electronic error in connection with the voting and/or tallying of the votes; or (6), votes that are stolen, misdirected, garbled, delayed by computer or other transmissions, lost, or late. Caution: Any attempt to deliberately damage any online service or web site or undermine the legitimate operation of Criminal Intent Viewer's Choice is a violation of criminal and civil laws and should such an attempt be made, NBC reserves the right to seek damages and/or other remedies from any such person to the fullest extent permitted by law. ******************************** |
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Post by Patcat on Oct 13, 2004 12:21:47 GMT -5
This article has quotes from both Rene Balcer and Mr. D'Onofrio. Among other bits of information--Mr. D'Onofrio's not crazy about the idea, and the episode was originally shot in June. Patcat Fans face 'Criminal' <br>life/death decision October 13, 2004 By RICHARD HUFF<br>DAILY NEWS TV EDITOR The fate of a recurring character on NBC's ''Law & Order: Criminal Intent'' will be placed firmly in the hands of the show's viewers. You can view the entire article at www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/ent_radio/story/241551p-207166c.html . |
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nick5oh
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 53 
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Post by nick5oh on Oct 13, 2004 12:29:15 GMT -5
Re: daily news article
Actually, it sounds from the article that VDO thinks it's a pretty cool idea,
"Cool counts, and that's all we thought, this would be pretty cool."
He and Balcer say it's a one-time thing.
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Post by Patcat on Oct 13, 2004 12:32:14 GMT -5
And another article, this one from TV Guide Online:
Back in 2002, Law & Order: Criminal Intent introduced Olivia d'Abo as the sinister Nicole Wallace (aka Elizabeth Hitchens). More than once, this homicidal hussy has proved an unusually crafty adversary for Vincent d'Onofrio's Detective Goren, who's got a soft spot for her. This Sunday at 9 pm/ET, NBC will let L&O: CI fans decide whether Nicole lives or dies. Say what?
Here's the sitch: The producers shot two endings for this week's episode, entitled "Great Barrier." Viewers east of the Mississippi will see one version, while those in the West will see the other. Both endings will be available for screening on NBC.com, where you're invited to vote for the one you prefer. The ultimate fate of Nicole Wallace will then be revealed on Oct. 24.
In pulling this stunt, series creator Rene Balcer says he's not mimicking the audience-participation element of reality shows. "With all due respect to reality TV, this idea predates that," he chuckles. "Sir Arthur Conan Doyle killed Sherlock Holmes in 1893 and then, with his readers in an uproar, he decided to bring him back a few years later. He did the same thing with his Moriarty character. So this is nothing new or exclusive to reality TV.
"What is new is that we're broadcasting the same episode on the same night with two different endings on different coasts," Balcer adds. "The only other time I can think that that happened was during the presidential election of 2000!"
L&O: CI didn't initially plan to give viewers a choice in Nicole's fate. The show shot one ending for the episode this past spring, then opted to shoot an alternative in August. "Both endings work," Balcer notes, adding that fan fervor over d'Abo's return (which NBC has been promoting) prompted him to get the audience involved. So which way does he think it'll go?
"Here's a woman you love to hate," he says. "She's a terrific nemesis. After 43 minutes, you might think, 'I'm gonna miss this character if she dies.' The audience may go into it thinking they want to kill her off, but the experience of watching the episode may change their minds."
Patcat
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Patrick Roy, 2006 inductee into the Hockey Hall of Fame
