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Post by romulanavatra3 on Aug 15, 2005 11:57:16 GMT -5
haha now that is really quite a fit for eames (sancho), but some how i have a lttille bit of trouble seeing goren as Don Quixote de la Mancha( he is a little bit knight like sometimes but i for staters dont think he is quite at the stage of Don Quixote, i aslo dont think he would have a job for very long if he statrted charging windmills and other buildings thinking they were evil dragons). reagrds rom
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Post by Cassie on Aug 15, 2005 16:55:16 GMT -5
Hi, JanetHyland, I have been thinking a lot about the art on LOCI and especially the episode “Seizure” I remember reading that Wassily Kandinsky (1866 – 1944) who’s art is called “Expressionism”, said that he believed that in the future, people would be able to read each other thoughts. That there would be no need for anyone to speak again. I have spent most of last evening searching for the painting on the web. I found “Black and Violet 1923” It’s very similar but not the exact same painting, as shown in “Seizure.” www.lsi.usp.br/~artigas/kandinsky/blackviolet.html I wonder, if the producers of the show, can only display copies similar, if there is a copywrite law, and they are not allowed to displayed a copy of the original? In the episode “Seizure” the storyline deals with Dr. Buckman, and his study on the “Limbic Trigger Syndrome” Buckman believes that all rage killers, have a lesion in the limbic area (center for emotions) of the brain from a head injury in their past. His test subject, Serial Killer Reikman was suppose to have the lesion. But, when that didn’t pan out the way Dr Buckman had hoped, he went to plan B. He set up Dr Cathleen Dwyer, his assistant who did have a lesion. (Goren kept referring to her as a mouse) After, studying this painting, I believe that it could represent the dissection of the mind, finger pointing to the lesions in the brain of Dr Cathleen Dwyer (Jenny Bacon). Even Goren could not hold this petite woman down, when her own rage took over at the end of the show. She, Jenny Bacon did an excellent job as the timid, shy, submissive killer aka Mighty Mouse….She knocked Goren off of his feet ;D I really need to rewatch “Enemy Within” but my first thought for the use for of this painting is to show the audience the wealth of the Banker and his wife. The painting is found in the Penthouse. When Kit (I believe that was the name of the wife of the dead banker) and her stepson are deciding on how much to give the nurse in severance pay. This was a very wealthy family and if they had a Kandinsky on the wall. You can bet it was suppose to be a real one. Also in season two, the episode called “See Me” about the eye doctor who turned out to be a schizophrenic. Vincent VanGogh’s work is on display in the doctors office. The doctor had gone to Amsterdam, Holland, in search for some answers, after his first psychotic break, while he was in medical school. He discovered VanGogh’s paintings. I am not sure if the show /Goren was sayings that VanGogh was a schizophrenic or what. I do not have the episode to review at this time…(If……Season Two had already been released on DVD …I might be able to answer some of my own questions ) Anyway, what I know about VanGogh is that he struggled with severe depression. Some say that he cut off his ear, because he was rejected by a woman. Then there are others who feel, that he cut his ear off because he thought that would cure his inner ear infections that he was plagued with. That might sound silly, however, medicine in the 1800’s is not what it is today. Ohhhhh, and lets not forget about “Art” from Season One Can you share what episode the Miro was in? Was it Season two???
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Post by NicoleMarie on Aug 16, 2005 12:58:19 GMT -5
In "See Me", Goren said others felt Van Gogh cut off his ear to "stop the voices he heard". This is interesting to read...I never noticed the art in CI. Since I am cluless about art in general, I would be clueless to the meaning of why they were there in the first place. I can name off dozens of painters- but don't ask me the significance of their impact on culture or history. Or even what they painted. Oh wait, Da Vinci painted the "Mona Lisa". There's one point for NM!!
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Post by Cassie on Aug 20, 2005 10:54:00 GMT -5
Vertigo is the one word that comes to my mind when I think about the episode “View From Up Here”. The elevator shafts, looking up at the skyscraper. I will try and find my tape and view it this coming week. I too have noticed the camera angles in other episodes. In the first episode, “One” while they, Goren and Eames are walking out of the office where Gia had gotten the blueprints of the buildings. The camera angle is a wide angle shot. You can see the water spots on the ceiling and the floor. Almost like it was a one point perspective, looking in at the scene, while Goren and Eames cross through it. I hope that makes sense to ya. In the episode of “Phantom“, when Goren and Eames and other cops went into the home of Gerry the *economist*, with a search warrant. When the door was opened by Tessa, the wife of Gerry, you could see Eames saying “We have a search warrant“, and Eames just pushes her way in while Goren starts to talk to Tessa, The camera, pulls back and you can see that the cameraman actually filmed that scene in the mirror, with the mirror reflecting what was going on at the door. I thought that was pretty cool too. In “Unrequited” from Season 3,When Goren and Eames where talking to Esther Gruenwald, at her front door. The way the camera was angled looking down at her, and when she spoke looking up at him. The audience got a view of what it would be like for the both of them engaged in conversation with each other. Now I don’t know if it was just that Mrs. Gruenwald is extra short, or if they the LOCI team went out of their way to emphasize the difference in height of the two actors. That was a great scene, Goren didnt get to pull one over on Mrs. Gruenwald. He never got in the front door Something else I have noticed, in the earlier episodes. During the interogation of a person. Goren would stand back and study the person while Eames and Carver would question them. Then Goren would ask the final questions and get the perp all razzed up. Like in "Seizure" when Goren finds out from Reikman about Dr Dwyers dislocated shoulder. I don't think that happens as much in the later shows. Thanks, Janet from the Hylands, you got me all giddy about LOCI and upcoming Season 5
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Post by Sirenna on Aug 27, 2005 22:38:18 GMT -5
I've always thought of Goren as a knight, a dark one with his goodness not readily visible. He battles his own demons as well as those in the villains he confronts.
He is so set on the side of good though, contrary to so many detectives in modern ficition. He does have many anxieties but he never vacillates on the direction of his moral compass, unlike Sipowitcs and Horatio et al. (In this respect Goren is very like the old Columbo.) His quirks are what lead to his victories. Although many critics would say they obsruct him I thinks they've always been his strength.
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Post by Sirenna on Aug 27, 2005 22:51:36 GMT -5
I like what you said Janethyland about how Goren absorbs and reflects (or re-reflects) the deviances of the character's back at them leading to their collapse. In blink too this was further underscored in how mirrows were used in the final interrogation scene: Goren watching the perp watching his wife betray him all done through two way mirrors culminating in Goren zeroing on the hollowness at the heart of the villain.
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Post by Cassie on Aug 28, 2005 9:02:02 GMT -5
Hi JanetHyland, while at work, reading your post on Friday…..my heart skipped a beat and then another, then it started to pitter and patter and the goosebumps went a shivering up and down my spine…....thinking about my all time favorite artist George Seurat (1859 – 1891). His masterpiece “La Grande Jatte” aka “Sunday Afternoon in the Park” www.artchive.com/artchive/s/seurat/jatte.jpg can be found in the episode “Tomorrow”, 2nd season. You only see the painting for a fleeting moment. If you look in a doorway from the hall in the very first scene. While the mothers are giving their orders to their nannies Hannah and Sarah. There are two scenes in a the park. 1st, Goren and Eames question the Philippian nanny that was fired by the Davenport family. She is sitting at a park bench. Later in the show, the nannies/sisters, are sitting on a rock, watching their charges, while Hannah is asking her sister, if Bill Davenport, the father of the slained young adults is asking for her. Davenport pulls up and takes his little girl and nanny home. Yes!!!!, I definitely feel that this painting represents life of upper society. And that it was put there on purpose!! Way too many coincidences going on here. Thanks so much for the insight! Hubby was laughing saying .”Oh Great, now we will have to rewatch all of the episodes, just to scrutinize the art” I too have felt that they, the writers, show some criminals as pure evil and beyond hope and were trying to get that message across. Until I watched the episode “Mis-labeled” At the very end of that show, Carver asked the question “Any bet which one the media will anoint the lesser evil?” Goren responded “There is no such animal” One other thought about camera angle and Goren. While watching "Mis-labeled" towards the end of the show when Eric/Brian is leaving the office. Goren and Eames are standing next to each other. Goren's tilted his head to the left. I wonder if while filming D'Onofrio and Kate Erbe, standing next to each other. Has VDO been told to tilt his head in order to keep both of them in the screen. If he is standing up straight, would his head be cut off or would only her head be showing? This can also be seen at the end of the episode “Smothered” I do realize too, that the character of Goren, that part of his personality is when questioning a person, sometimes he tilts his head. In “Pas De Deux”, Deakins called Goren and Eames into his office to let them know that Nicole Wallace was acquitted of all charges and set free. I liked how that was brought into this episode. I wonder if it would be possible for Dick Wolfe to come up with a Law & Order series, that was more a serial soap opera, about the cases.. A series that starts out investigating a couple of different crimes vs. introducing you to a couple of different wannabe bed hoppers. Throughout the season, some crimes would be solved while new ones are picked up. As we all know in real life, at our own jobs, there are issues that are put to the side until all of the facts can come in and then they are solved. I think in a case like the episode of “Pilgrim” that would have to be an entire show. Due to the subject of the storyline,. trying to stop a terrorist before a bomb goes off. I just feel a show like that would be more realistic as to what life is like for a real detective. Now back to George Seurat…..and “Sunday Afternoon in the Park‘….just a quick note, about the painting. It was at the Paris Salon in 1886. Seurat wanted to share his theory on Pointillism. He believed that painting in dots, would produce a brighter color than painting in strokes. The Salon laughed at him, which they did to most of the Impressionist painters. Seurat took his painting home and set it against the wall and painted his next masterpiece (in my eyes of course) “The Models” www.abcgallery.com/S/seurat/seurat2.html Don’t ya just love it? Seurat once said. “ “Art is harmony” They see poetry in what I have done, no, I apply my method and that is all there is to it.”” Thanks for the tip on Adelbert Ames, I am investigating him. I also discovered that their was a Union General by the same name.
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Post by Sirenna on Aug 28, 2005 12:34:57 GMT -5
...thinking about my all time favorite artist George Seurat (1859 – 1891). His masterpiece “La Grande Jatte” aka “Sunday Afternoon in the Park”... Yes!!!!, I definitely feel that this painting represents life of upper society. And that it was put there on purpose!! That explains the deja vu. When I was watching the nanny on the bench scene, I thought I'd seen it before. Come to think of it there are many moments like that throughout the series. Come to think of it too; it's kind of like being in Gorens detective shoes, absorbing everything as you watch the drama and having these prickly moments and brain nudges as little things connect to the big picture.
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Post by janetcatbird on Aug 28, 2005 19:46:08 GMT -5
As to the art, I don't think Eames has ever specifically said "pretty". She did make a comment about a piece that "You couldn't put that in your living room!" when Goren was intrigued by something. Maybe it's just Eames working among cops, but I have a feeling she wouldn't really go for gushy sentimental fluff--not that she'd let on with guy cops, at least. But maybe she likes pleasant, easy pieces because she has to deal with so much nastiness in her job. She has mentioned her family, spending time with her nephew--it seems like she needs that separation between work and personal. She spends enough time with the dark side at work, she doesn't need anything disturbing in her off hours.
I took Art History in high school and loved it. I can't tell you technique, but I really got into social contexts and inspiration. What's neat is that my roommate and I both like art prints for the wall; we're about as far away from Animal House or heavy metal bands as you can get. Her Renoirs are up, I'm slow but hopefully my "Cafe Terrace" by Van Gogh and Kandinski's "The Deluge" will be up soon. Fingers crossed...
--Thursday
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Post by Patcat on Aug 28, 2005 20:50:55 GMT -5
There is a brilliant and moving (in my opinion--there are others who find it pretentious) musical by Stephen Sondheim entitled SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE. It's a fictionalized account of Seurat's painting of LA GRANDE JATTE, and I highly recommend it.
Patcat
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Post by Cassie on Aug 29, 2005 19:05:50 GMT -5
Thanks PatCat, I will check it out, I just looked it up and Mandy Patinkin and Bernadette Peters are both in it It seems so frivolous to travel to a city, just to look at a painting. but you know someday I am just going to Chicago and do that Thanks again PatCat
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