Thoughts on Goren post-SenGupta input

[Patcat]

A good friend of mine is an Adult Child of an Alcoholic, and he's one of the super responsible guys. He's a great guy, and he'd save every kid in the world if he could. Goren always reminds me of him in several aspect.

Patcat

[trisha]

So, I guess there are differing views on who is the one who physically abused Bobby? I.e., if Dad did it, it's because he was an alcoholic, and if Mom did it, it's because she was schizophrenic ...

I think that in assessing this, we would have to take into account that corporal punishment for children was socially acceptable during the time that Bobby was a small child. It was still very much so when I was a small child, but there were a lot more advocates for change then. So, I would definitely keep in mind *when* these incidents took place, especially because Bobby doesn't seem to fear random acts of violence.

I suppose I imagine that if Bobby were beaten by his mother, it was because he did something that she felt was worthy of corporal punishment. It also stands to reason that her vision on what an appropriate punishment was during a psychotic break would be radically different from what she would normally do. So, a slap could become ten, or being sent to his room could become being locked in a closet.

I imagine that alcohol could have had a similar effect on his father.

I think it should also be noted that older siblings can also be terribly abusive, and we don't know if there were any other care givers. Just because he hasn't mentioned them, doesn't mean the don't exist for him. Look at how long we went thinking he was an only child!

[Patcat]

There's also the possibility Bobby was in a children's home or foster care at some point in his life, and the abuse could have happened there.

Patcat

[LOCIfan]

cross-posting again. sorry.

There was an article in The New York Times many years ago about several different writers (successful, famous ones...) who'd been so affected by negative reviews or responses that they were unable to write for quite a long time afterward. One of the playwrights didn't write a new play for SEVEN YEARS! None of the writers believed that anyone was out to cripple them as writers or that the reviewers weren't entitled to their opinions, etc... and all of them struggled with how irrational and frustrating it was that they should be so deeply affected by the opinions of others (in some cases just ONE reviewer's opinion). It was very interesting, and provided such insight into the artistic process and temperment. It also highlighted the fragility of that process.

I didn't get the impression from the interview that Ms. SenGupta has a negative view of online responses to the series. I guess the best evidence of that is that she respected this site enough to do an interview!

If Ms. SenGupta recognizes she has a tendency to be hurt by comments online, she's probably wise not to frequent the boards as a self-protective measure. If she found herself unable to write new episodes because of online criticism, we'd ALL suffer!!! ;D

[LOCIfan]

So true about follow-up questions!!!

Especially so about the physical abuse Goren suffered. She said "sporadic" physical abuse -- but she did say it in specific response to Observer's question about being severely injured (I think I'm recalling correctly, if not let me know). And Ms. SenGupta added that the abuse was something that had been incorporated into Goren's character from the get-go.

For whatever reason, I just assumed that any kind of traumatic beating came from his father. I get the impression that, although we know more about Goren's relationship with his mother, there's a lot more to the backstory about Goren and his father...

[LOCIfan]

oops. was a double post, but couldn't delete. Sorry!!

[goreneames]

metella said:

I wish we had a chance to do follow up questions; I am more fascinated with the writer than the process or facts - what makes a person who can churn out consistantly epic & enthralling scripts tick? I would like an indepth follow up on her cultural and ethical outlook. And just a plain - day in the life of ...... eggs for breakfast? Calls in the morning? What type/style of clothing worn to work? (you know those LA people can get strange )

LOL Metella!! I feel the same way, but didn't want to appear greedy!

I was intrigued by some of her answers to questions about Indian/American culture and what sparked her interest in criminal justice. Her personal background is very interesting, and her comments on Indian spirituality, the importance of the immigrant experience and growing up in a biracial family made me want to ask follow-up questions about her own experience and outlook.

I guess it's a good interview that leaves the reader informed and hungry for additional information. I know I'll be watching Ms. SenGupta's episodes more closely in the future! ;D

[Metella]

One of my bosses/teachers in college has been a very sucessful researcher in biochemistry ..... he is Indian, he can (did) talk to one for literally hours in his office; he often talked of great flung ideas, I always left him feeling inspired. One thing he was lamenting was the creation of a new Indian caste ..... those Indians living outside of India! It seems they are treated as a new caste, not a low caste, but now different and it is reflected in the way marriages are set up ..... His marriage was an arranged marriage - they have 3 kids, and he seems to very much respect his wife. He was allowed to see her before he accepted; he said he would not have embarrased her by not accepting her. A very interesting culture.

[LOCIfan]

It is a fascinating culture, Metella. Especially because, as Ms. SenGupta noted, it's founded on values and a worldview that are quite different from our own. Whereas we in the west tend to value the individual above all else, eastern cultures are aware of each individual as part of a much larger universe and striving to be in harmony with the universe (rather than to rise above it, or to be distinguished from it) is emphasized. I spent a semester studying abroad there, and it was one of the most enlightening experiences of my life.

[Sirenna]

Goren and his batcave. Never has been my favourite subject.

To some degree all childhoods are unstable and abusive. Having a schizophrenic mother and an addicted, irrepsonsible father is worse than many. Now we know Goren is hypervigilant but he must be processing what his senses pick up correctly (like a dyslexic reader who learns to read around what his eyes and brain perceive on the on the page to make sense of the story.) Anything otherwise and Goren would be one of those ' loose canons' to use a detective fiction cliche.

In spite of his troubles, he must be somewhat of a regular guy.

[trisha]

For someone who doesn't like the batcave, you've brought up some valid points relating to it

There are things about him that will never be "normal," but he's leading a successful life and seems to be coping with his problems. Like everyone, and especially the abused, occasionally his past catches up with him and he's forced to look at it and reassess himself. This is very important for growth and change in personality and behavior, and is the focus of self actualization. To really look at yourself and accept what you see can be brutal, as we saw in POI, but Goren doesn't turn away from what he sees, and that's a good sign for those of us who don't want to see a spiral into hell or another un-Stabler

[Metella]

That holds true for all people; to grow and really overcome and change for the better - we all have to look clearly at who we WERE and evaluate it - some why's some how's and then go on from there.

I also don't really like any of the "batcave" musing; we all do have our trama's and dark ages to overcome, some are higher mountains than others - but in order to be sucessful and happy and healthy we must overcome and tuck away in a cedar chest in the mind - to be mindful but not overwhelmed by ....

[Patcat]

Well, I like the trips to the batcave (g).

I find it interesting that Goren has chosen a profession where he confronts behavior and issues that likely remind him of the worst of his childhood. Or perhaps the profession chose him?

Patcat

[NicoleMarie]

I'm not a fan of the batcave either. I don't enjoy tripping through Goren's head. hehehehe!