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Post by Metella on Jun 1, 2005 7:09:11 GMT -5
NO! I feel the same, or maybe MORE fond of Goren. I'm at work - so I will have to elaborate later; but I wanted to leave no doubt that my being dead wrong on one issue - just made me smile at myself and had no impact on my thoughts in a negative way.
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Post by Patcat on Jun 1, 2005 9:22:13 GMT -5
It was an illuminating interview in many ways, but I found the revelations regarding Goren of great interest, especially about the physical violence he may have experienced as a child and the evidence of the security of his relationship with Eames.
Patcat
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Post by NicoleMarie on Jun 1, 2005 9:57:57 GMT -5
No, not at all. I had a completely different reaction to the interview, of course! ;D My first and only reponse is it is nice to see that some of the writers do take more time into putting a show together and that some of them (at least one!) do care how the viewers react. It might make me rethink the way I evalute future CI's or the ones I did not watch from the end of season 4. I'd like to thank Ms. SenGupta for lightening my mood towards CI and getting me to look forward to it again. Though I didn't like "Shibboleth", (my apologies to Ms. SenGupta for any hurt feelings; it is never my intention), I hope it's not her last dance with Goren either.
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Post by romulanavatra3 on Jun 1, 2005 10:14:27 GMT -5
hey all now i can understand why goren reacted the way he did when eames was on maternity leave. the interview has really shed some light on how close eames and goren are. i mean not everyobdy would be willing to put their cup up for a bet even with the person work with or best friend that shows quite a degree of trust and the fact that have a backwards forwards sort of betting game shows a genuine friendship and trust between them. i find it intresting about eames and her husband(it must have affected her very badly beacuse Ms SenGupta answer would imply that she was very young when it occured and that would probably have affected her quite dramtically). it porabbly has shaped her character quite a bit and would proabbly explain alot of the way she interacts with people. finally we have cleared up who is senior though it does raise one intresting question, if goren went up from being a beat cop he would have to have been either very good( which we know he is) or had very important associates in key postions( who helped get him promted). i mean how long has goren been in the force, he would have to be been promoted very quickly which is possible but unlikely. as for eames she must also have been promoted reailtlevy quickly to get into major case, given that she is still realatievly young and lets assume that she was there for one maybe two years before goren she would have had to have a well palced mentor to be able to get into the major case squad. reagrds all rom.
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Post by Patcat on Jun 1, 2005 11:20:07 GMT -5
I'd need to check the book again to be absolutely sure, but I seem to recall that it took Edward Conlon, the author of BLUE BLOOD (let me repeat that this is a great book) about 10 years to become a detective. Now, he did have relatives who were on the force, and he was a graduate of Harvard (the latter perhaps more of a handicap (g)), but that might be some idea of a time scale.
Patcat
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Post by LOCIfan on Jun 1, 2005 11:43:57 GMT -5
I'm cross-posting my earlier post from the Interview thread...
I have now had a chance to go back and read Ms. SenGupta's interview responses at a more liesurely pace, and have a bunch of reactions to it. Not sure if it would be better to start a new thread based on insights gained from the interview or not (will leave it to the mods to decide).
To start with, I have to say that one of the things that strikes me most about both Goren and the series itself is how much of a collaboration both the character and series really are.
Ms. SenGupta's articulate and detailed (more detailed than anything I've ever read about how this or any other television series goes from the idea to script to episode) description of the process is truly fascinating.
One of the things that strikes me most profoundly is the relationship between the character of Goren and Rene Balcer and those writers who had a hand in creating him at the earliest stages of the series. Obviously, a great deal of thought went/goes into creating and maintaining Goren as a distinct individual. Someone who has a whole lifetime of experiences that impact who he is, how he acts, what makes him tick, how he perceives and carries out his duties as a detective. And what we viewers see each week is a combination of the thought that the creators/writers of the character envision and what Mr. D'Onofrio brings to the character.
It's very fascinating. And I can't help but believe that the thoroughness with which these writers have envisioned the character can't do anything but help a wonderful actor such as D'Onofrio to inhabit the character of Goren. It must be very gratifying for an actor of D'Onofrio's caliber to have such a deep and layered character to sink his teeth into each and every week.
Another thing that strikes me is the way Ms. SenGupta responded to the questions about whether or not all the writers would write for both Logan and Goren, or if they'd be divided up. She said, "As far as I know, all the writers will write for both Logan and Goren. At least I hope so. I’d be sad if “Shibboleth” was my last dance with Goren."
I think that sentiment is so lovingly phrased. It suggests to me that she has a real interest in the character, as one of the people who was instrumental in defining Goren's character at a point at which the part hadn't even been cast yet.
I've got a couple questions:
Have the responses to this interview impacted your perception of Goren as a character and creation of someone in addition to Mr. D'Onofrio?
If so, how?
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jaquetta
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 171
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Post by jaquetta on Jun 1, 2005 18:02:11 GMT -5
That was a fabulous interview. It certainly gave me more depth to Goren's background, and I'm glad to read that they do feel it important to give Carver (and by association) Capt Deakins a larger hand to play in some episodes.
Blue Blood is a fun read. It took my dad about 10 years to make Detective Sgt in Homicide (in Oakland CA), but I have no idea if that's the norm then or now.
They turn those puppies around pretty quick, don't they? It doesn't sound like there any give once it hits production, linewise.
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Post by LOCIfan on Jun 4, 2005 8:42:14 GMT -5
It's pretty amazing how fast the process is. And it does seem as though the scripts are adhered to, as though not much ad-libbing goes on once the cameras start rolling.
It's interesting, because when I first saw THE FAITHFUL, and then when I got the first season DVD and watched the commentary, it was my impression that the entire action of Goren showing how he wanted a shot of the body from above, climbing onto the pew, etc... had been ad-libbed by D'Onofrio. However, there wasn't really any ad-libbing. Ms. SenGupta put it well when she described it as "interpretting." Because, from the script's stage directions it was Ms. SenGupta who had Goren hop up onto the high back of a pew to demonstrate for the photographer what he wanted. That was eye-opening for me. I also found it fascinating to read her reasons for including that particular Goren moment in the script.
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Post by trisha on Jun 4, 2005 12:35:07 GMT -5
Thank you to Ms. SenGupta and all involved in bringing us this interview!
ITA with Observer's post about wishing we'd asked more silly questions like the Santa mug. PatCat, that is my FAVORITE part! I wish we would have asked about the photo of the dog in the hat, and if there were more things like the photo of RB being used in BLINK. I'd also love to know who's idea they were.
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Post by bammi on Jun 7, 2005 23:16:22 GMT -5
I read that article and have to say that I believed all along that Bobby was abused as a child. And I believe that on the show they have mentioned that his father was a womanizing gambler, but never really stated he was a drinker. But I assumed this also. It seems to go hand in hand with the other two. (I could be wrong, though, so go easy on me).
I know alot of you abhor fan fiction, but I personally love it. And I have written three so far (I've just recently started, probably about 2 months ago. I have those on fanfiction.net and 2 are about Bobby as a child.) and it pleases me to think that I have the character of Bobby Goren down pretty good. At least I feel like I do, and reading that part on Bobby at least made my stories seem true to character.
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Post by LOCIfan on Jun 8, 2005 1:48:50 GMT -5
Cool bammi! You and Observer were right on the money when it came to Goren and his history of abuse.
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Post by Metella on Jun 8, 2005 12:51:07 GMT -5
The extent of that part of the backstory is what I had wrong - and I am glad to know. I knew that Goren had a backstory - I just thought that some of the actions were "happy accidents" and not so much scripted. I did have some other things down right - and I am glad to know that too. Overall (not that this is test or anything) I was right about more assumptions than wrong. I like Ms. SenGupta's discription: paraphrased by me: writing the script & then setting it free for others to interact with it. Very cool. I wish we had a chance to do follow up questions; I am more fascinated with the writer than the process or facts - what makes a person who can churn out consistantly epic & enthralling scripts tick? I would like an indepth follow up on her cultural and ethical outlook. And just a plain - day in the life of ...... eggs for breakfast? Calls in the morning? What type/style of clothing worn to work? (you know those LA people can get strange )
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Post by Patcat on Jun 8, 2005 13:18:46 GMT -5
I'd love to have the chance to ask more questions as well, although Ms. SenGupta has been more than accommodating.
I wasn't surprised by the revelation that Goren suffered abuse as a child, given what we know of his parents. I'd like to know how extensive it was, etc.
Patcat
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Post by Cassie on Jun 8, 2005 15:06:34 GMT -5
I wish we had a chance to do follow up questions; I am more fascinated with the writer than the process or facts - what makes a person who can churn out consistantly epic & enthralling scripts tick? I would like an indepth follow up on her cultural and ethical outlook. And just a plain - day in the life of ...... eggs for breakfast? Calls in the morning? What type/style of clothing worn to work? (you know those LA people can get strange ) Me too. But like Metella and Patcat said.. I appreciate what all she has given us….Thank you!! I wonder too about the clothes. I saw a picture of Rene Balcer and Fred Berner (excutive producer) on the set of LOCI with VDO and Kate Erbe dressed in character on the web. Both Rene and Fred, where wearing shorts and sneaks…..boy do I wish I could work for them, I like their dress code As for Goren being abused. I knew his childhood was not an easy one. I have always felt that if Goren where to go into Counseling he would be diagnosed as an ACOA - Adult Children of Alcoholics. A child that grows up in a dysfunctional home. There does not have to be full blown alcohol addiction in the home, for it to be dysfunction. Although in the episode of “Legion” (S 2), Goren says to the one kid, that he remembered his dad coming home and smelling of booze and woman. But having a mommy who is schizophrenia, and knowing it by 7 years of age, says a whole lot. Young Bobby Goren, had to grow up fast and become a little man. He has always been devoted to his mother. ACOA are either super responsible or irresponsible. Knowing that Goren calls his mom every day and visits her once a week at Carmel Ridge (See Me, ep) says to me, that he has put his life on hold for his mother. They take themselves to seriously too- Remember the “Good Doctor” (S 1) when Goren is quizzing the shrink at the beginning of the episode? I could go on and on and on…..but I think you might want to send me over to your Batcave for rest of the my diagnoses Anyway…..Thank you again , Ms SenGupta…..it was a real treat to hear what you had to say, and please never feel that we are being critical of your story writing. I know I am guilty of projecting my own life experiences into some of the shows. Its not the writing, that I find hard to believe. Its thinking that people can be so cruel to each other. We rented "Cold Mountain" this past weekend. In the movie, the war was basically over, and some bullies where still shooting the deserters. Just to be Pricks!! I just don’t understand that. And it happens all the time in real life.
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Post by NicoleMarie on Jun 8, 2005 19:05:18 GMT -5
I figured since Goren had a schitzophrenic mother he would be subject to abuse at one time or another. It would go with the terrority. (I'm not to saying *all* schitophrenic parents are abusive!! It's just that Goren had an unstable home life and I recall Goren saying at one point saying he was frightened of his mothers schitophrenia.)
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