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Post by Patcat on Apr 19, 2008 12:33:29 GMT -5
Airs April 23 on USA at 4 am (EST). Will also air on April 23 as part of the LOCI syndication on local channels.
Episode # 33. 11th of the Second Season. First aired January 1, 2003.
Written by Theresa Rebeck and Rene Balcer
Directed by Constantine Makris
Guest Actors:
Lee Tergersen as Keith Ramsey
Colleen Clinton as Jenny Sullivan
Synopsis: The investigation of a young woman's murder leads to a credit card fraud ring and a very angry suspect.
Quotes:
Goren: "Not bad, if you like high maintenance ball breakers."
Eames (about the glowstick): "Ew, I can't believe you touched that thing."
Carver: "There is not a single case on the books showing a causal relationship between sexual harassment and murder."
Eames: "Not a single case, until now."
Airline Worker: "You understand I'm bending our rules."
Eames: "I think your rules are used to it."
Carver: "The problem with most men, is they want what they can't have and don't want what they have."
Eames: "The problem with most men, is they talk too much."
Ripped from the headlines: The story appears to be based on the unsolved murder of Northwest Airlines baggage supervisor Susan Taraskiewicz whose body was found near Boston in 1992. She was last seen alive at Logan Airport. Other workers had sexually harassed Ms. Taraskiewicz and had also been involved with a credit card theft ring.
Keith Ramsey is guilty of many crimes and for many reasons. How realistic and believable is he? Would his credit card scheme have been discovered if he hadn't pursued women? Why did he react so strongly to Jenny Sullivan?
Do we lose sight of the victim in this story?
What do we learn about Goren's attitudes toward women in this episode?
Is Goren disgusted by Ramsey? Was Goren upset by having to pretend to share Ramsey's attitudes?
I think there tends to be a concentration on Goren's relationship with Carver and its frequently antagonistic nature. But what is Eames' relationship with Carver? What does this episode tells about that?
A solid, perhaps underappreciated episode from the famed second season. Does this episode get lost in the high quality of the second season?
Comments:
I know I could go on about the importance of casting in some of these EOTWs, but I can't help but feel Lee Tergesen's performance as Keith Ramsey makes this episode work. He's charming enough to be believable as Jenny's possible prince, and angry enough to be her murderer. I'm particulary impressed by the way he turns in the interrogation scene.
Oh, the things we learn from LOCI. How to sabotage cars, the many uses of the glowstick...
Submitted for your discussion and debate,
Patcat
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Ladyheather
Detective
An acquired taste.....
Posts: 441
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Post by Ladyheather on Apr 23, 2008 20:25:51 GMT -5
Keith Ramsey is first and foremost a slime. He is the definition a wolf in sheep's clothing. A man she thought she could trust. How many woman have come close to being victimized by a man just like him? I like how Goren plays him at the bar. Getting to know his type  . I agree about what we learn as students of LOCI. So many uses for the simplest things..... |
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susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
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Post by susan1212 on Apr 23, 2008 20:32:52 GMT -5
My favorite part is meeting "Bob. Bob the shipping magnet." and Alex "the Queen of Sheba". So funny!
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Post by DonnaJo on Apr 24, 2008 16:02:08 GMT -5
"Carver: "The problem with most men, is they want what they can't have and don't want what they have."
Eames: "The problem with most men, is they talk too much."
I wasn't crazy about this final line. I take it that Eames is talking about the different members of the credit card ring all selling each other out in interrogation? What does that have to do with Ramsey & the murder?
Unless I missed something here.....
Too bad that the same writers aren't involved in the upcoming episode "Purgatory." I would love to see an Easter Egg regarding a glow stick, when Goren is at the Strip Club.
This happens to be a favorite episode of mine. I like how Goren plays along, pretending like he goes to, or at least understands, strip clubs. Remembering with the matchbook that they passed it along the way. Definitely a reason why Goren prefers being a passenger - you can observe everything.
Am I wrong is believing that most men would remember it also?
I wish we had learned more about why Ramsey had such deep feelings of inferiority. They spent alot of time with Jenny's folks. I wish they could have touched upon his childhood or background.
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Post by deathroe on Apr 24, 2008 16:08:27 GMT -5
Very interesting point DonnaJo about Ramsey's background. He really was not likeable in any way, and I think emphasis was placed on the audience's enjoyment seeing him get his!
This morning, as I do every morning at 4 AM in my pre-work quiet time (don't laugh), I watched USA's CI rerun. The whole "Jenny would have felt right at home in a titty bar" line was bleeped out. But the whole thing about the stripper and the glow stick was left in (I'm sure because of the wording). Kind of gives one pause for thought.
Both actors seem to be having a lot of fun in this episode.
I always took Eames' last line as being about how Ramsey's outburst did him: "that dumpy b*tch." Always very much relished the way the two women are framed looking at him with distaste at the end of the episode--you can feel his smallness and his comeuppance so well. And of course, the Queen of Sheba thing. Never gets old--I laugh every time.
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Post by tjara on Feb 19, 2009 9:00:30 GMT -5
Ok, I get to bug you guys some more *evil grin*, now that I discovered CI is on yet in another timeslot. Oh, and thank you DVR technology, because that timeslot is 3:00 a.m. *yawn* Makes for a nice breakfest, though... I mean wachting the recording in the morning of course!  Like DonnaJo, what I missed in that ep was some of Ramsey's background on why he felt so inferior. Other than that, it was a nice episode. Not great, but nice. I was actually surprised that this fraud hadn't been noticed earlier, but ok, such things happen. I thought it was a little odd that it was Bobby who'd mock him about the suits and *high profile lifestyle*. Mind you, Bobby definitely isn't rich, but remember Badge - how Bobby was hit by the way he was characterized by Terri? I definitely was under the impression that the Bobby of the early seasons knew how to enjoy life and didn't settle for the cheapest thing either. That's especially true for the way he dresses, his suits don't just come of the rack... I guess Ramsey reacted so strongly to Jenny because he in fact did like her, but didn't feel she was worthy enough of him. He wanted someone special, and felt she was beneath what he was looking for. But then she started causing trouble and he had to get rid of her. She harmed his chances at finding someone better that her. I really liked Eames in that episode. I bet because she's a woman in a predominantly male job, she knows a lot of that stuff, too. Especially with her body size... I guess she could relate very well to Jenny, and it was played out nicely, not front and center of the ep, but there. And it fits with the way she'd been portrayed thus far (Third Horseman and Badge come to mind). I agree with Patcat, Lee Tegersen was great as Keith Ramsey. The way he lost his temper in the interrogation scene - nice acting. I feel completely stupid, but can anybody explain the glowsticks to me? Is it just a reference to strippers? Do we really learn that much? What is the Bobby Goren Act and what is real? I may be wrong, but Bobby spent many years in a "male enviroment". And in the early seasons he was portrayed as somewhat of a "ladies man", too - and a guy that enjoyed cars and poker. Mind you, he's not a chauvinist, but let's just say, he knows how to enjoy himself. And being with the military, he's probably seen the one or the other strip bar from the inside... I'm sorry to be putting for clichés here, but that's really what I think. Bobby Goren was portrayed with some very *male* attributes. While Bobby definitely isn't such a jerk or would have bias on the basis of gender, he doesn't like Eames feminist attitude either. He probably udnerstands it, and I'm not going to overrate his remark on the feminism, but I think he doesn't appreciate that offensive feminist position either. I think he's fed up with guys that don't treat women well (father issues?), and I emphasize well and not equal. I think he could settle for being the sole breadwinner in a family if they could afford it. He respects women and treats them well. Much like what Ramsey pretended to be... I guess Bobby is portrayed that way to appeal to women. While most of us would be turned off by a macho chauvinist, let's face it, most women like a guy who protects them, who's polite and romantic and well-mannered - "The Gentleman". He's allowed to be "a guy" at times, as long as he thinks of those anniversaries, listens when you need him too, shows you how much you mean to him - and most importantly - respects you. |
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Post by maherjunkie on Feb 19, 2009 13:29:24 GMT -5
I think he was just baiting the guy.
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Post by outerbankschick on Feb 19, 2009 14:28:43 GMT -5
About the glowstick thing. . .I am assuming that, by virtue of what goes on in strip clubs (and the fact that there are places where the girls are totally naked), I've always taken that to mean that some of the girls were especially talented in putting that glowstick in some very naughty places.
Which would make sense in light of Alex's remark. "I can't believe you touched that thing!"
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Post by tjara on Feb 19, 2009 17:29:51 GMT -5
Thanks OBC. I almost thought so, but then thought I was "over-thinking" |
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Post by tjara on Feb 22, 2009 10:27:54 GMT -5
Ok, this won't be a post of deep, deep insight, but I was just rewatching Baggage. At the beginning, when Eames and Goren are at the crime scene, Goren takes the keys and starts the car. But he never get's into the driver's seat or even bothers to look what gear the car is in. A little goof? I will admit I don't know too much about cars, over here most people drive standard shift, yet my family has a semi-automatic (tiptronic) and an automatic-transmission. When I got my driver's license, I had to learn how to drive standard shift, and if I remember correctly, there's no way to start one of those without stepping onto the clutch. In our tiptronic car, you have to step on the brake, otherwise it won't start. And it has to be in the right gear, too. I won't make any bets on our automatic transmission, I think you could start it just like that (Because of our Tiptronic, I start it in the same fashion - I step on the brake before turning the key - the force of habit  .) Set aside the technical aspect - if you were to start someone's car to see if it was ok, wouldn't you acutally get in the driver's seat? Isn't it kinda dangerous to start a car if you don't check what gear it is in? (I know many automatic cars won't let you draw the key unless you put them into "park", but anyway...) Sorry for being so obsessive about a little detail, it just struck me as completely odd... |
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Post by trisha on Feb 22, 2009 14:08:47 GMT -5
Bobby is a car guy from what we know of him from Cherry Red and other episodes. One could argue that he would know the car he was in was an automatic at a glance, and thus that the car could be started with just the twist of the key in the ignition (as long as the car is in park.)
BUT, then he would also know about my nit-pick, which is that the whole ping-pong ball in the gas tank is a ridiculous urban legend. It just kills me that it made it into an episode of CI. I think that I wrote a long post whinging about it when the ep first aired. My complaint in a nut shell: unless the car is a diesel (which is wasn't,) the ping-pong ball wouldn't even fit into the opening of the tank in the first place, and even if one did manage to get one in there, the fuel pump has a screen that PROTRUDES OUT from the intake to prevent debris from getting in and clogging it.
Silly, silly, silly. And irritating.
But, it doesn't detract a whole lot from the impact of this ep for me, at least not now. I get never ending joy from watching Goren spew his righteous wrath on selfish people, and they don't get much more selfish than a man murdering a woman because she had the gall to think she was good enough to be his girlfriend.
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Post by DonnaJo on Feb 22, 2009 15:25:32 GMT -5
Set aside the technical aspect - if you were to start someone's car to see if it was ok, wouldn't you acutally get in the driver's seat? Isn't it kinda dangerous to start a car if you don't check what gear it is in? (I know many automatic cars won't let you draw the key unless you put them into "park", but anyway...) I'm sure that Goren didn't enter the car because CSU was still searching the car for hair, fiber, fingerprints etc... |
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Post by tjara on Feb 22, 2009 17:39:16 GMT -5
trishaYes, I'd read that somewhere else and had to smile about that one, too. @donnajo Guess so, it's still odd. I'd think that for real, a police technichian would check out the car. Of course it served the story well... I can live with a little artistic license ;D
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leanonme
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 166
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Post by leanonme on Feb 27, 2009 8:54:26 GMT -5
My guess, along with Donna's CSU comment, is that it would have been very hard for Goren to GET into the seat if Jenny had been driving. He would have had to move the seat, and caused even more disturbance to the scene.
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leanonme
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 166
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Post by leanonme on Feb 27, 2009 8:57:01 GMT -5
But, it doesn't detract a whole lot from the impact of this ep for me, at least not now. I get never ending joy from watching Goren spew his righteous wrath on selfish people, and they don't get much more selfish than a man murdering a woman because she had the gall to think she was good enough to be his girlfriend. Oh my, thanks for the thought of the day Trisha! Wraps it all up really well! My thoughts exactly. |
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