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Post by Patcat on May 31, 2008 15:51:30 GMT -5
Airs June 4 on the USA Network at 6pm (EST)
First aired February 16, 2003. 36th episode overall, 14th of the second season
Written by Gerry Conway and Rene Balcer Directed by Frank Prinzi
Guest Actors: Mark Linn-Baker as Wally Stevens Leslie Hendrix as M.E. Rodges
Synopsis: The deaths of several homeless individuals leads Goren and Eames to a sophisticated insurance scam.
Quotes:
Goren: "When you live in a shelter, you learn to hide things."
Eames (when Goren finds money in Leo's jacket): "I always wanted a jacket like that."
Eames (to an irritated medical examiner (not Rodgers)): "You get a lunch break?"
Eames: "Someone's killing the great bums of New York."
Eames: "Gotta wonder how many bums are walking around with a price on their heads."
Wally Stevens: "Looking for fraud, looking for falsehoods--they always reveal themselves."
Stevens (after providing the detectives with a wealth of information): "Other than that, I can't help you."
Eames: "I didn't know you had an older, geekier brother."
Eames: "Insurance guys love to give each other awards."
Goren (about Bernard's house): "This room doesn't fit."
Stevens: "Women like men with money."
Goren (about Wally): "Ah, he's an interesting man."
Eames (about Wally's office): "I'd hate to see what the assistant Chief Adjuster's office looks like."
Carver: "It's very visual. Juries like visuals."
Goren (to Wally): "No matter how hard you strive for chaos..."
Deakins: "Criminal masterminds. They don't make 'em like they used to."
Eames: "I'm sure he'd like a pen pal."
A second season offering with surprisingly few comments.
We know Wally Stevens will play an important role in the events of ENDGAME. How does that (or does it) affect the viewing of this episode?
Eames' comment about the "older, geekier brother"--would she make it now? What is Goren's reaction to it?
We know Goren does become Wally's "pen pal". Is this a case of "no good dead goes unpunished"?
Does Goren remark about shelters indicate a personal knowledge of them?
If Bernard hadn't gotten greedy, could this scam have continued?
What made this case Major Case at first?
What is Eames' reaction to watching Goren working with Wally?
How does Goren react to Wally?
Is Wally the most sympathetic of LOCI villains?
Did the French woman really not know about the murders?
What happened to cause Leo Gergis' downfall?
Will Leo's family have to give up the insurance money?
How did Wally manage to get married?
Comments:
As I rewatched this episode for this discussion, I was struck by its stunning visualizations of Wally's compulsion and plan. The use of maps, settings, photos, and staging to recreate the patterns (particularly the pattern of five) is remarkable, as are Mr. Linn-Baker and Mr. D'Onofrio's physical performances.
I'd argue that Mark Linn-Baker's performance of Wally Stevens is one of the great guest turns in LOCI. And it seems to bring out an even more subtle and sensitive turn from Mr. D'Onofrio.
Interesting that Wally Stevens struggles to find chaos amidst patterns, while Robert Goren struggles to make sense out of chaos.
Eames is no mere sidekick. Notice how she anticipates Goren's description of the patterns of the crime.
For me, the episode's weakness is that the plot, particularly the details of the insurance scam, seem to get lost. But I must also confess this really doesn't bother me much.
Throughout this episode, there are brilliant examples of the difficult task of visual depictions of what goes on inside someone's head. I've mentioned the depictions of Wally's patterns. There's also the following of Eames and Goren's investigations, and Mr. Linn-Baker and Mr. D'Onofrio's performances of what's going on in their characters' heads. "Juries like visuals." So do audiences (g).
As the new season starts on June 8, this will be the last EOTW for a while. I hope people have enjoyed them. I've enjoyed doing them, and would like to continue if people want. Suggestions are welcome to make them better!
Patcat
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Post by quietfireca on Jun 4, 2008 1:13:28 GMT -5
Hi Patcat - boy, you ask the hard questions! You've been sitting here, all alone for days, with this wonderful post! I watched Probability this afternoon for the first time and just loved the Wally Stevens character. He made Goren look absolutely calm and collected.
But it was how Eames reacted to the two of them that was really entertaining. Goren took the geeky older brother comment well, I thought. He didn't give her a blank stare. He knows he's an "acquired taste" long before she puts the concept into words much later and accepts her teasing. I wonder how he'd react if someone else had made that comment? If Wally was at one end of the social adeptness scale and Eames was at the other, Goren is a lot closer to Eames. (However, Goren slides on this scale depending on the episode and the characters present!!) The contrast was beautifully acted. Eames definitely wouldn't make the geeky older brother comment now. Does she even still tease him?
Ya, how did Wally manage to get married, and what finally drove the wife away? Wally would say money. But that's his rationalization.
I think Wally appreciated that he had a kindred spirit in Goren. Otherwise, I don't think he would have mentioned aloud to Goren how he bothered Eames by staring at her. I think the appreciation started when Goren caught on quickly to Wally's analysis of the Insurance scam. I wonder what he considered saying to them as he hesitated before leaving the room at that first meeting.
Now you've tortured me by mentioning Endgame. I've seen it once, but don't have access to it right now. Patience, patience.... I look forward to making the connection when I see it again.
I think that's all I can weigh in on - I still have seen very few of the first 3 years epis, but I'm pretty fluent in quite a few of the 4, 5, 6 & 7th years (with a few really annoying gaps! - not enough viewings of Endgame and ITWSH to really "get" them). I'm learning to know (read) LOCI - not Paranoid.
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susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
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Post by susan1212 on Jun 4, 2008 5:58:04 GMT -5
"Probability" has always been one of my favorites. Wally Stevens is such a complicated character - leave it Robert to figure him out. And, yes, Wally was a very sympathetic character. The only other killer who evoked such sympathy from me was John Tagman of "Want". He too had a deeply painful, pitiful life. And Robert reached both of them with his combination of brilliance and empathy. I wonder if Tagman hadn't been killed in prison, would Robert have kept in touch with him too. I think Goren identified with the "geekiness" of Wally and the loneliness of John - two characteristics he has had to deal with in his own life.
The episode itself was wonderfully written and presented. The numerous details remained consistent throughout and all meshed together in the end. A perfect episode.
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Post by Patcat on Jun 4, 2008 10:15:38 GMT -5
I'm glad someone finally responded to this post (g).
A reminder that PROBABILITY airs tonight on USA.
Patcat
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Post by DonnaJo on Jun 4, 2008 12:31:03 GMT -5
I'm sorry, Patcat. Better late than never. I've been hassled by real life, so my posting has been limited. But YES.....this is one of the all time great episodes. "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished." Always wondered what that actually meant, so Brady's knowledge & use of Goren's friendship with Wally against him is a fine example. I find that whole exchange between Goren & the French accomplice somewhat sexually charged. When he leans in closely & holds up each long finger & counts off "Eu, Due, Toi,"...well, oooo la la
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Post by quietfireca on Jun 5, 2008 0:43:31 GMT -5
I find that whole exchange between Goren & the French accomplice somewhat sexually charged. When he leans in closely & holds up each long finger & counts off "Eu, Due, Toi,"...well, oooo la la Oh, my, he's such a master at turning on the charm! Eames must just lean back and watch him go to it; knowing exactly what he's doing and watching to see if the charmee is savvy enough to know what he's doing. I don't think his accent helped him out with her (although both he and Eames didn't do too badly)! The French are very particular about their language! (with good reason) I'm going to have start mentally collecting up those charm power scenes to study. Gee, what great homework!
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Post by quietfireca on Jun 5, 2008 0:46:19 GMT -5
"No Good Deed Goes Unpunished." Always wondered what that actually meant, so Brady's knowledge & use of Goren's friendship with Wally against him is a fine example. I *so* need to see Endgame again.... Patience, patience....
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Post by Patcat on Jun 5, 2008 9:10:09 GMT -5
"The French don't care what they do as long as they pronounce it properly." Alan Jay Lerner's Lyrics for Professor Higgins in MY FAIR LADY.
Patcat
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Ladyheather
Detective
An acquired taste.....
Posts: 441
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Post by Ladyheather on Jun 5, 2008 19:23:09 GMT -5
I think that Wally was my favorite murderer of all time on LOCI. He is so "innocent" is many ways. I have always thought that is why Goren identified with him. He understands why Wally was involved with this scheme. Goren did seem to be like Wally's big brother. That is why the pen pal relationship worked for them. Maybe, Goren's attention to Wally was to study him in some way too. Temping to have a pen pal that was also a murderer.
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Post by Summerfield on Jun 5, 2008 21:23:53 GMT -5
I really liked this episode, but I really never understood how Wally killed those people without any remorse. Somehow I felt the episode let me down because I couldn't grasp that concept. Color me stupid.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jun 5, 2008 21:31:58 GMT -5
I think Goren saw a kindred spirit in Wally. Someone who didn't fit in, always on the outer edge contributing but never appreciated for his effort or work.
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Post by quietfireca on Jun 5, 2008 23:32:23 GMT -5
I really liked this episode, but I really never understood how Wally killed those people without any remorse. Somehow I felt the episode let me down because I couldn't grasp that concept. Color me stupid. Yes summerfield, I'm the same "colour" as you about that. Wally worried how he'd offended Eames, but he was capable of murder? Obviously the women/money thing pushed all his buttons.... There is always enough in each episode to fill my cup, I can forgive those few drops that spill!
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Post by Patcat on Jun 6, 2008 8:31:15 GMT -5
Perhaps someone with a better knowledge of Asperger's or autism might address Wally's possible motivations?
But it's quite possible that Wally's Asperger's had nothing to do with his involvement with the scheme. My take on the scheme is that Wally only actually killed Jack Bernard, that Jack was the one who performed the actual killings. This observation, by the way, is not meant to absolve Wally of guilt in the murders, but to note that Wally didn't kill the homeless people. They may have been only abstractions in Wally's mind, not real people. I don't think such an abstraction had anything to do with Wally's Asperger's. There are plenty of people who become killers or involved in the killing of others who don't suffer from any condition. They're able to dehumanize the victims, arguing that the victims deserved it or don't possess as much value as others. Wally was desperate for the money that he thought would bring his wife and children back to him, and anything that got in the way of that was an obstacle to be gotten rid of. It's why he killed Jack. I also suspect Wally viewed Jack as a traitor.
My knowledge of Asperger's and autism is limited. I've read the novel, THE CURIOUS INCIDENT OF THE DOG IN THE NIGHTTIME, which is written from the perspective of an autistic teenager, and I've observed several children on various points on the autistic spectrum who play in my friend's baseball league for kids with disabilities. (My friend isn't autistic, but has a physical disability. He says the autistic kids are hard to talk to, but have interesting ways of looking at things.) I've the impression it's very difficult for an autistic person to develop emotional connections, which is one reason for my question about Wally being married. Could someone address that issue?
Patcat
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Post by nancyt on Jun 16, 2008 16:26:57 GMT -5
Patcat -- Like you, I have a very limited knowledge of autism. (A friend of mine has a child with Asperger's syndrome.) Observing the character of Wally, however, I wonder if he could have, at a point when he needed someone to help with the structure he craves, run across a woman who was looking for a sweet, harmless guy who would give her a nice home to live in. (Oo, maybe the first of the children wasn't Wally's? A pregnancy that made the woman, or probably girl, even more desperate?) She might have seen his inwardness as shyness, or as proof of emotional hurt like her own; only when she'd been with him for a while might she have realized that he was incapable of making real emotional connection, that she could reassure him and tolerate his oddness to the end of time without receiving any real understanding of her needs or her emotions, because he simply CANNOT understand.
Anyway, if there'd been a role of "Wally's wife" and I'd been cast, that's the biography I'd have done.
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Post by tjara on Mar 8, 2009 6:00:56 GMT -5
Heya,
I very recently got to see "Probability" and "See Me", both of which aired this week as a double feature at 3:00 a.m. (Thank God for DVR's...) Not only did I think that these two eps made an interesting couple, they both chilled me to be bone. I guess it's because in both cases the villain isn't a classic villain, but someone that I started feeling bad for. In less then 3 days, I've seen each ep three times, and I'm still not bored, but looking for subtleties.
I saw Endgame before I saw this, but it didn't affect me at all, because I never caught onto it until Eames made the comment at the very end. Now that I think of it, though, I'm surprised that Wally is at a regular prison. But looking back on it, you can tell that Bobby really made a connection to Wally.
No, she'd not make such a comment anymore, but then on a whole she doesn't tease him as much anymore. This is very a huge chunk of levity has been cut out of the show... Generally Bobby can deal with being teased, this time like other times. I was under the impression that in that particular ep, VDO pushed Goren just a little bit more towards the edge. He seemed to act a little bit more accentuated, as if he was trying to blur the line between "normal" and "crazy".
A little sidenote: One the dub, the "older geekier" brother became a "younger geekier" brother. That's ok though, because in German you'd actually say it like that...
Maybe from his job as an undercover (he's probably had his share with homeless drug addicts) or through Frank (if Frank ever became homeless before Brother's Keeper). I don't think its personal knowledge as in the sense that Bobby ever was homeless.
I'd guess so. But then, I thought Wally was planning to stop after the 15th murder.
What made this case Major Case at first?
I think because of where Leo Gergis was found, on industry property.
I think to some extent she’s amazed at how Goren can handle these people, even if they’re weird. We also get a glimpse at how much Goren knows, and she never ceased to be amazed by that. Then I think it also “frightens” her because it shows just how weird Goren can be…
I think he shows deep understanding, treating him as normal as possible. I think though that from the start he senses that something about Wally is different.
I don’t know whether I want to put the tag “most” on him, but he’s definitely one of those I felt very sorry for. There isn’t this kind of “malicious streak” that you see in many villains on the show, he seems to be so innocent and lost.
She knew after the first murder, or so she said.
I thought it was implied that he was an alcoholic.
Yeah, I think they will have to do that. All the companies were looking for their money, and wherever Wally hid it (we’re never told, are we?), they’d probably want it back.
I don’t know that much about AS, but Wally is a very gentle, very polite man. His wife probably only thought that he was a very “quirky” man, but in a loveable way. It was probably only after a couple of years that she noticed that she’d never get him to lighten up and that he’s unable to deal with changes, chaos and unplanned happenings. It was only then that she realized that she couldn’t relate to him. What attracted her first – kindness & dependability – ultimately drove her away because there was no connection. I know some people thought that was weird, but I had to think about a book by a guy with AS. Ragincajun also posted it in the other thread, it’s called “Look me in the Eye” by John Elder Robison. I haven’t read it yet, but it talks about someone who never knew he had AS until he was a middle aged man. I also once saw a BBC documentary on AS, and these people seemed fairly “normal” in interviews, and fairly normal when dealing with other people. It was the little things that were off, like they’d have learned when and how to look at people when talking, or how they related their experiences. Too my knowledge, there’s a huge discussion about whether AS should be considered a disability or just a different view on reality.
By the way, my parents knew Dr. Hans Asperger from the Christian Youth Organization they worked for in the late 60s. Asperger liked working with young people and see them interact. This episode was originally aired Feb. 16th, 2003. February 18th, his birthday, is International Apserger’s Day. Probably NOT a coincidence.
On the whole, I’m stunned at how visual this episode it. The whole plan that Goren puts up in the office, the “5s” around Wally, VDO’s performance – and even the aria. The shot in which Goren and Eames complete the last pattern on the map – stunning. (and it works so nicely because VDO is left-handed and KE is right-handed). I really have to comment on Mr. Linn-Baker’s performance. He portrays Wally Stevens so convincingly, how he struggles in social interaction, but also at then end when Goren tells him what’s wrong with him. The confusion that Linn-Baker than shows, his unability to cope with the chaos… wow. I think it’s always a challenge playing someone with a disability, but Linn-Baker did great.
Yes, I noticed that, too. I think whoever put forth the idea that Eames/KE didn’t pull her weight, even in earlier Seasons, is just wrong. She doesn’t get the fancy-flat-out-“I’m-the-star-of-this-show”-arias, but Eames is vital in many, many episodes. I this ep, it’s her who finds Jack Bernard, because of an idea SHE has.
Really? I thought they explained that very well. I only thought the major weakness was how Leo Gergis brother found out about the insurance scam when even our detectives struggled.
This is a great episode and I can’t wait to see the original version once I obtain the DVDs.
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