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Post by Patcat on Oct 24, 2008 9:52:02 GMT -5
Airs October 31, 2008 at 3pm (EST) on the USA Network
Twelth episode of Season One. First aired January 13, 2002.
Written by Rene Balcer
Directed by Steve Shill
Guest Actors:
Lydia Grace Jordan as Sophie Feldman
Michael Gross as Dr. Charles Webb
Stephanie Seymour as Sarah Lindstrom
David Lansbury as Michael Stovic
J.K. Simmons as Dr. Emil Skoda
Synopsis: The murder of a noted heart surgeon at his son's bar mitzvah lead Goren and Eames to an obsessed forensic psychiatrist.
Quotes:
Eames: "I guess the custody issue's been worked out.
Deakins (after Goren points to the smell of gin): "Shaken or stirred?"
Eames: "Divorce judge. The gift that keeps on giving."
Eames: (after learning Dr. Feldman was accused of abusing his daughter): "Well, I'd kill him."
Stovic: "Yea, they're bad people. They're New York City Police Detectives."
Eames: "I love everything about the job except that. The Buddy Boy System."
Skoda: "Don't worry. Even Elvis sang out of tune."
Deakins (on Webb's motives): "That's a hell of a commitment."
Carver: "Unlike Dr. Webb, we never took leave of our senses."
Webb (about Goren): "Listen to this amateur psychologist."
I'd like to put in most of Goren's final "duet" with Webb, but just a couple of moments:
Goren: "I've been there. Every man in this room has. You were sixteen again."
Goren: "Nobody is reasonable when they're in love."
Carver: "Your client's not insane, he's in love. Maybe it's hard to tell the two apart, but the law can."
Webb: "She was my last chance."
Queries:
Michael Gross is probably best known for playing the father in the sitcom FAMILY TIES. He's cast against type in this episode (all the L&O shows appear to enjoy casting actors against type almost as much as the actors appear to enjoy being cast against type). How does this work in this episode?
Does Goren see himself in Webb?
Does Webb underestimate Goren?
If another pair of cops was investigating this crime, would Webb have gotten away with the crime?
Why didn't Sarah go to the police?
Is Goren a geek?
Has anyone ever tried to put a hit on Goren and Eames?
Was Webb seriously considering killing Goren and Eames or was this part of his plan to prove he was insane?
Is Stovic a bad cop? A dumb one? Would he have turned to murder without Webb's prodding?
Is Carver concerned about finding a murderer or proving Webb sane to save convictions gained on Webb's testimony?
Is Sarah Lindstrom a tease?
Goren appears to know Webb's work. What's his attitude towards Webb?
Is Webb crazy or in love?
Why doesn't her mother keep Goren from speaking to her daughter?
Did Mrs. Feldman really think her husband abused Sophie?
Will Sophie and her brother be ok?
Will Webb see the inside of a jail? If he does, will he survive?
Comments: This fine first season story has all the elements of a great LOCI episode. We have Goren at the crime scene, intently examining the body and even sniffing at it. We have a complicated plot with an unusual motive, and an arrogant murderer who commits the fatal mistake of underestimating Goren and Eames. We have Goren intently studying unusual art. There's wonderful acting from all of the guest stars and the regulars and some wonderful scenes. I particularly enjoy Carver's interaction with Goren in the interrogations of Dr. Webb. There are really two wonderful "duets". The final one, where Goren destroys Webb, is a classic example of the detective at his furious, ferocious best. The other is Goren's questioning of Sophie Feldman. Mr. D'Onofrio is frequently at his best when he works with children. It helps that the young actress playing Sophie Feldman is so good, but the next time someone tells you that Mr. D'Onofrio is an over the top actor (which, admittedly, he is sometimes), show them this scene which he plays subtly and gently. And, finally, I think this is the episode where Kathryn Erbe comes into her own as Eames. She's the one who figures out how to trace the murder weapon. She's the one who traps Stovic. She also gets all the best snarky lines.
By my reckoning, there will be one more EOTW before the start of the new season. Hope you've enjoyed these ramblings.
Patcat
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Post by DonnaJo on Oct 24, 2008 10:10:57 GMT -5
Best aria of all time!!
When Goren hold up Sarah Lindstrom's photo & ridicules Webb by moaning & groaning in pretend ecstasy, we really see how far he'll go to nail the perp. He shows him no mercy. He destroys Webb's pride and his ego.
And Carver? He so wonderfully goes along with Goren on this.
Delightful. ;D
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Post by Patcat on Oct 24, 2008 13:07:56 GMT -5
Goren and Carver both seem particularly angry at Webb. I wonder if both of them feel he's betrayed his profession?
And a thought I can't get out of my head--Do you think Goren is really like his "pretend ecstasy" when he's really in ecstasy?
Patcat
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Post by DonnaJo on Oct 24, 2008 14:25:06 GMT -5
And a thought I can't get out of my head--Do you think Goren is really like his "pretend ecstasy" when he's really in ecstasy? God...I hope not!  |
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susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
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Post by susan1212 on Oct 24, 2008 17:11:43 GMT -5
This is one of my favorite episodes. My favorite line is:
Goren: "Fourteen phone calls a night?!"
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susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
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Post by susan1212 on Oct 24, 2008 18:16:05 GMT -5
Does Goren see himself in Webb?
I believe he does, when he thinks about what it is like to be in love.
Does Webb underestimate Goren?
Of course, doesn't everyone?
If another pair of cops was investigating this crime, would Webb have gotten away with the crime?
Probably, unless at least one of them was a keen profiler.
Why didn't Sarah go to the police?
She said it was to protect Sophie, but I think that was lame. I don't see how not telling the police protects her.
Is Goren a geek?
No, he is way too handsome to be a geek. He does have some geeky qualities that I find endearing and attractive.
Has anyone ever tried to put a hit on Goren and Eames?
I don't recall ever hearing that before or after this episode.
Was Webb seriously considering killing Goren and Eames or was this part of his plan to prove he was insane?
I believe he was serious, if he could get Stovic to do it. And if not, he could reveal what he did to prove he was insane.
Is Stovic a bad cop? A dumb one? Would he have turned to murder without Webb's prodding?
Yes, he is a murderer. A dumb murderer, but still a murderer. If he had any brains, he would have told his commanding officer of the offer from Webb and maybe he could have gone undercover to catch him, thereby getting his shield back. Hmmmm....sounds like someone we know! But, he wanted the money and revenge for the abuse he suffered as a child. He had other choices, but chose murder. That's bad in my book.
Is Carver concerned about finding a murderer or proving Webb sane to save convictions gained on Webb's testimony?
Both.
Is Sarah Lindstrom a tease?
Maybe, but I don't think she's aware of it. She was using Webb to help her niece, but in the beginning she probably thought he might be a nice guy too. She should have broken up with him when he started calling her obsessively 14 times a night.
Goren appears to know Webb's work. What's his attitude towards Webb?
Skeptical, and suspicious. He also seems to like the challenge of confronting a psychiatrist whom he believes to be responsible for murder. Not insane - guilty.
Is Webb crazy or in love?
I believe he was both. Sure we all do nutty things when we are in love, but murder? I think he was still responsible for his crime because he knew it was wrong at the time.
Why doesn't her mother keep Goren from speaking to her daughter?
Didn't Eames distract her? I'm not sure but I think Eames mentioned needing her help during the search, so Goren could sneak into the other room to speak to Sophie.
Did Mrs. Feldman really think her husband abused Sophie?
Probably, at first. But when she heard the child's story, and had her examined at the hospital, she knew what really happened but she thought she could use the incident to accuse her incredibly selfish husband of abuse.
Will Sophie and her brother be ok?
They will probably be ok if their mother gets them real counseling. There will always be scars from the murder of their father, but if they get help, they should be alright.
Will Webb see the inside of a jail? If he does, will he survive?
I think he will go to jail, but he will also need therapy. I don't think he'll get it though. He is way too coniving not to survive. He'll find a way to manipulate other prisoners into getting what he needs to survive.
Comments: This fine first season story has all the elements of a great LOCI episode. We have Goren at the crime scene, intently examining the body and even sniffing at it. We have a complicated plot with an unusual motive, and an arrogant murderer who commits the fatal mistake of underestimating Goren and Eames. We have Goren intently studying unusual art. There's wonderful acting from all of the guest stars and the regulars and some wonderful scenes. I particularly enjoy Carver's interaction with Goren in the interrogations of Dr. Webb. There are really two wonderful "duets". The final one, where Goren destroys Webb, is a classic example of the detective at his furious, ferocious best. The other is Goren's questioning of Sophie Feldman. Mr. D'Onofrio is frequently at his best when he works with children. It helps that the young actress playing Sophie Feldman is so good, but the next time someone tells you that Mr. D'Onofrio is an over the top actor (which, admittedly, he is sometimes), show them this scene which he plays subtly and gently. And, finally, I think this is the episode where Kathryn Erbe comes into her own as Eames. She's the one who figures out how to trace the murder weapon. She's the one who traps Stovic. She also gets all the best snarky lines.
By my reckoning, there will be one more EOTW before the start of the new season. Hope you've enjoyed these ramblings.
Patcat
I did enjoy your "ramblings" very much, Patcat, but I don't think I have ever seen VDO overact. In my opinion, it has become the norm for many actors to UNDERACT. Many are just being themselves and reading the lines, or being the same character they had success with in the past, repeatedly within different stories. Vincent delves deeper into his characters than most, which makes for great performances - well done, not overdone. And rare at the same time.
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Post by hargiteam42 on Oct 27, 2008 10:05:47 GMT -5
Does Goren see himself in Webb?
A. I think that Goren does see a little bit of himself in Webb, but doesn't want to wind up like him.
Does Webb underestimate Goren?
A. Most definitely.
If another pair of cops was investigating this crime, would Webb have gotten away with the crime?
A. Personally, I think that he just might have. But thanks to Bobby and his "amateur psychology" he got put away.
Why didn't Sarah go to the police?
A. That is a good one. I think that a part of her believes that he got what he deserves and the other part of her is afraid.
Is Goren a geek?
A. Most definitely. In a cute way though.
Has anyone ever tried to put a hit on Goren and Eames?
A. I don't believe so...
Was Webb seriously considering killing Goren and Eames or was this part of his plan to prove he was insane?
A. I am gonna say that it was a part of his plan. Seriously, they don't let crazy people shrink crazy people. I highly doubt that he'd had some kind of psychotic break.
Is Stovic a bad cop? A dumb one? Would he have turned to murder without Webb's prodding?
A. Maybe a little bit of both.
Is Carver concerned about finding a murderer or proving Webb sane to save convictions gained on Webb's testimony?
A. I think again, a little bit of both. If that makes much sense. It does in my mind in anycase.
Is Sarah Lindstrom a tease?
A. not really. just a little gun shy.
Goren appears to know Webb's work. What's his attitude towards Webb?
A. I think that Goren respects the idea of Webb's work, but not Webb himself, and he most definitely lost all respect towards him when he hid behind his knowledge of insanity. And his reason for killing the father was because he loved Sarah instead of the fact that he molested his little girl probably set Goren off too.
Is Webb crazy or in love?
A. In love. No doubt in my mind.
Why doesn't her mother keep Goren from speaking to her daughter?
A. Because she honestly believes her daughter was messed with.
Did Mrs. Feldman really think her husband abused Sophie?
A. yes.
Will Sophie and her brother be ok?
A. maybe after some therapy.
Will Webb see the inside of a jail? If he does, will he survive?
A. Oh, he'll see it. And I really don't think he'll make it.
I love this ep.
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Ladyheather
Detective
An acquired taste.....
Posts: 441
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Post by Ladyheather on Oct 27, 2008 11:22:56 GMT -5
I would have enjoyed Dr. Webb as a repeat guest. It would have been interesting to see him match wits with Goren in other situations. He was " crazy like a fox" and that made him very dangerous.
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Post by GorensGirl on Oct 27, 2008 21:07:22 GMT -5
If memory serves me, the setup on this one where Goren got the guy to admit it was one of their best. I still can't believe the beast actually killed at his son's bar mitzvah. For goodness' sake, have some mercy on the kid.
I adored the scene with Goren and the little girl, but it did surprise me. Protocol-wise I'd have expected Eames to be the one to talk to her, since at that point they didn't know the abuse allegation wasn't true. Having a man question her might have bothered the little girl more.
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Post by Patcat on Oct 28, 2008 9:05:28 GMT -5
I think (and I could be wrong) that by the time Goren speaks to Sophie they were pretty sure the abuse allegation was false. Perhaps Goren approached Sophie to see what her reaction to him was? Her acceptance of him was another indication no abuse had occurred. Goren often speaks with children in the course of their investigations. Eames appears to also get along well with kids, but he seems to have a connection with them.
Of course, the real reason he speaks with Sophie is that it makes a great scene (g).
Patcat
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Post by hargiteam42 on Oct 28, 2008 9:50:32 GMT -5
^^ I agree with you, Goren connects with them. I was going to say that maybe Eames doesn't connect with them because of her want for them, but then I recalled that this is season one. It is still very possible, because she and Joe wanted a family. I think though, in later seasons that her lack of interaction is more pronounced.
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Post by GorensGirl on Oct 30, 2008 21:00:32 GMT -5
Although she did well with interacting and getting the kids out on a seventh season ep.
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Post by Techguy on Nov 2, 2008 1:07:04 GMT -5
I would have enjoyed Dr. Webb as a repeat guest. It would have been interesting to see him match wits with Goren in other situations. He was " crazy like a fox" and that made him very dangerous.
I agree with a lot of what other posters have said. The aria here is superb, one of the best in CI's history. I also liked the smart, savvy, manipulative Goren we see here much more than what we got the last 2 seasons. I miss this Goren a lot, and hope that he doesn't have so many lingering ongoing problems in Season 8 (whenever that is) that prevent him from regaining his mojo. |
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Post by tjara on Jan 22, 2009 7:16:38 GMT -5
One of the episodes that really got me hooked.
It really got some of the cerished CI elements. Bobby bending over the corpse and actually sniffing it was fun, and Deakins comment on the report is just hilarious. I also love it when Bobby intently stares at Webb who lashes out instantly. Great acting from VDO and Paul Gross. The aria I didn't think was that good, though one could feel that Bobby did relate to Webb in some way - if it's just that one knows how it feels to be madly in love.
I, too, was surprised that Bobby would talk to Sophie, I had expected Eames to be to one. Anyway it makes for a lovely CI scene, one of my favourites.
I very much enjoyed Eames undercover. KE got to act out some emotion, and that's very nice to watch, because Eames usually is quite composed.
I only thought they should've explained a little better that the reason the "bad cop" acutally took the job was because of his own history as abused child. They hinted it quite well throughout the ep, but I though it was lost a little.
She was threatened not to. That scene actually felt a little akward, but I guess it was there to show that Webb wasn't crazy after all.
Eames kept her busy - I was under the impression it was intentionally. Now an interesting sidenote - in the dubbed version Eames asks for the clothes that Sophie wore when she was molested. I can't hear that in the original version and it's not in the subtitles... I guess the mother also never thought that it would be discovered that that was just a lie.
I don't think so - she was just getting back at him for taking everything away from her.
It'll be tough, especially for Sophie, when she comes of age to understand what was going on. But I guess in the end they will be ok.
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Post by outerbankschick on Jan 23, 2009 22:44:39 GMT -5
My favorite scene in this one is when Bobby is staring at Dr. Webb while they are in the judge's chambers, and the doctor is visibly squirming.
"Could someone please tell him to stop staring at me!"
I don't think the doctor was completely "putting on" in that scene. I think Bobby's intense staring really was freaking him out.
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Patrick Roy, 2006 inductee into the Hockey Hall of Fame
