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Post by Patcat on Nov 11, 2010 8:53:13 GMT -5
Will air November 15 at 9pm(EST) on MyNetwork. First aired October 18, 2007. Third episode of Season 7.
Written by Warren Leight and Charlie Rubin. Directed by Michael Smith
Guest Actors:
Amy Acker as Leslie LeZard
Jim Gaffigan as Marty Palin (Mr. Gaffigan played the hapless mortician in DEAD. I’m proud to claim him as a fellow Hoosier.)
Frank John Hughes as Bing Schnorr
Jason Kravits as Jim Kettle
Synopsis: The murder of a dentist takes Eames and Goren on a twisting tale.
Ripped from several possible headlines: See http;//en.wikipedia.org/Diethylene_glycol
Quotes:
Eames (to shoe store manager): “Which one did you think was Dr. Norman Goldman?”
Eames: “Sounds like a beautiful marriage. He was a workaholic; she took sleeping pills; they’d kiss in the morning.”
Eames: “It’s hard to fight back when you’re on a nitrous toot.”
Rodgers: “Jim Kettle was allergic to cigarettes, dust, mold, pat dander, car exhaust, and cleaning fluids—the guy was allergic to New York.”
Eames: “What good is it having a friend at the FDA if that friend is a complete idiot?”
Goren (to LeZard): “Yea, your marathon picture here. (To Bing Schnorr). “Did you see this? It’s-she says “Under four hours.” (To LeZard) “And that’s an official Yale hat you have. You get this on the street?” LeZard: “I got it at the reunion.” Eames: “No. See, we checked. You never matriculated.”
LeZard: “I researched you too. You think you’re brilliant, you will never make senior partner.” Goren: “You could be right.” LeZard (to Eames): “And you’ll never make captain, either. You’ll be tainted by him. He’s insubordinate, unstable. How long before he loses it, and takes you down with him?”
Goren: “You worried about what she said, that your career is tainted by me?” Eames: “I used to.” Goren: “And now?” Eames: “It’s too late.”
Queries:
Some seventeen pages in our original discussion, occasionally pugnacious but always respectful. Congress could learn from us. The original discussion is worth a second look. I think one reason I do these EOTWs is to get to take a second look.
Was Dr. Goldman’s name ever cleared?
Why was this a Major Case case?
Why did Goren refer to his mother in the confrontation with the mentally ill mother?
Did Toby’s sister have to die?
Is LeZard like Nicole? Nelda? Did she fool Bobby? Did she fool Alex? How did LeZard get her job? Didn’t someone check her credentials?
Was the relationship between Schnorr and Palin illegal? Unethical?
How did LeZard get the information about Goren and Eames?
Is there a junior or senior partner in Eames and Goren’s partnership?
Why was this episode called SMILE?
What did Eames mean by that last comment? Why did Goren even ask her?
Comments: Much of the original discussion centered on that last conversation between Goren and Eames, and that exchange does deeply affect what is a solid, but not stellar, middle of the road LOCI investigation. LeZard is a particularly despicable villain, and her character does lift this story a bit from the middle of the road pack. But I’m still not sure how she found out about Alex and Bobby. Could she have learned all that just by reading newspapers? And I’m troubled that both Dr. Goldman and Jim Kettle—who appear to be good men trying to do a good job—seem to get lost in this story. I’m torn about this episode. There are several things I like about it, but it doesn’t seem to come together as a whole. I’m interested in others’ comments.
Patcat
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angua
Detective
Posts: 281
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Post by angua on Nov 11, 2010 9:43:37 GMT -5
Every fan of every television show has one example of The Episode That Never Happened. For me, this is that show. While not the worst, it's not the best episode either, and the exchance at the end has no real impact on the partnership, as well as being very out-of-character for ever-supportive Eames. "It's too late" just plain hurt me. As I'm sure it did others. Some never really forgave her. I know, I've seen their blogs.
A couple of questions I've got: Was "it's too late" out of character for Eames? Is it really something he should completely forgive her for?
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Post by Patcat on Nov 11, 2010 10:29:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the quick response!
I never thought the answer was out of character for Eames. Bobby asked her a question. She responded honestly. "It's too late" could mean, yes, her career has already been tainted by her association with Bobby. Or, (and this is how I choose to interpret it), it could mean that working with Bobby has made her realize that being a good cop, detective and person does not mean being part of the Brass. And that's if Alex ever wanted to be part of the Brass. Remember her comment in JONES--"I didn't take this job to get noticed."
I do wonder why Bobby asked the question. He's bright enough to know the suspicions the Brass has about him would affect their view of Alex. It's an odd time to ask the question as well. It's the sort of thing I could see them discussing driving back to Major Case, but not in the office of the suspect they've just arrested.
Patcat
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Post by maherjunkie on Nov 11, 2010 15:20:53 GMT -5
The little B***h was probably just being sarcastic.
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angua
Detective
Posts: 281
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Post by angua on Nov 11, 2010 16:16:20 GMT -5
See? Never ever forgave her.
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Post by maherjunkie on Nov 11, 2010 16:22:29 GMT -5
I never liked her ALL the time to begin with.
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Post by idget on Nov 12, 2010 0:02:36 GMT -5
I think one of the reasons he asked her was because of the loss of his mother. When one suffers such a big loss it gets you to thinking about things you never thought of before and gets you to realize things that you may have took for granted before. Eames is probably one of the few important relationships in his life and he probably realizes that he has taken her for granted in the past.
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Post by alliehalliwell on Nov 12, 2010 1:41:40 GMT -5
While I did like Eames, there were moments that I felt she was just...like everyone else, and not in a good way. I felt the response "its too late" was rather cold. She could have said. "Too late, but I don't care" or "Doesn't matter" or "Yeah but I'm not sure how I feel about that" or something else to let Bobby know it wasn't his fault. I think the problem with the line "its too late" is that it puts it all on Goren rather than taking some responsibility for herself. I mean, if she did want to go further at work, she would have switched partners.
Anyways, I think this was one example where I found her to be cold. Another would be at the end of War at Home, when wrapping up the case Eames just ignores him and gathers up all the photos. Then again during the episode where Bobby's on suspension (mind blank on the title), she yells at him for not telling her about being undercover. While I get why she was upset, I think it was silly that she got mad at him like that. She's a grown woman and if she had problems with how he did things she should have let him know before (like tell him she wanted a more equal partnership) rather than blow up about being thought of as 'carrying his water'. She gets mad when he keeps things from her, but gets mad when he tells her.... I dunno, I think sometimes she was acting a little cold and childish.
But I digress...
Anyways, I too felt that this line was hurtful, not only as a viewer but more so as Goren's partner. He knew he had issues, but he's also never had a long term-healthy relationship in his life and he didn't know how to deal with it. She knew that and yet said something that was obviously going to tear him up. She could have said anything else or just told him what she had really wanted instead of keeping it inside. "Too late" tells me that Eames really did want to get promoted but was too burdened by Goren to be given the opportunity. If that was case, she should have told Goren she wanted to get promoted and he might have tried to help make it happen. Who knows...
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Post by jeffan on Nov 12, 2010 4:45:38 GMT -5
I tend to agree with Idget’s evaluation and also Alliehalliwell - she is, afterall, supposed to be a professional. In her defence, she is human and working with the idiosyncratic Goren would inevitably lead to exasperations.
As to Eames character, I think she is no better or no worse than any of the other female partners. She does have the advantage of being the partner of the most popular detective on the show and been there since it’s inception.
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angua
Detective
Posts: 281
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Post by angua on Nov 12, 2010 8:14:20 GMT -5
See? This is why I don't like the episode. People who were hurt by it lash out at my Eames. **laughs**
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Post by Patcat on Nov 12, 2010 10:17:00 GMT -5
I think in every case that's mentioned, Eames is justified in her reactions to Goren. In THE WAR AT HOME she's bent over backwards to help him to deal with his mother's situation, and he shuts her out. In PURGATORY, she's terribly hurt he didn't tell her what was going on. "Justified" isn't the right word, perhaps, but there are reasons for how she reacts, just as there are reasons for why Bobby reacts as he does. The great irony of PURGATORY, I think, is that Bobby sticks to the rules about not telling Alex because he wants to get his job back and he wants to get back to working with her. And by sticking to the rules (for once), he nearly loses Alex. And I must disagree with the idea Eames is at all like the other female partners on LOCI. She's one of the best written and acted female cops on TV, possibly one of the best female characters on TV. Only Olivia Benson and Mariska Hargarity's performance come close.
I still wonder, though, how Bobby and Alex got from a place like "It's too late" to "You're the best. You always will be."
Patcat
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angua
Detective
Posts: 281
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Post by angua on Nov 12, 2010 10:29:35 GMT -5
I think in every case that's mentioned, Eames is justified in her reactions to Goren. In THE WAR AT HOME she's bent over backwards to help him to deal with his mother's situation, and he shuts her out. In PURGATORY, she's terribly hurt he didn't tell her what was going on. "Justified" isn't the right word, perhaps, but there are reasons for how she reacts, just as there are reasons for why Bobby reacts as he does. The great irony of PURGATORY, I think, is that Bobby sticks to the rules about not telling Alex because he wants to get his job back and he wants to get back to working with her. And by sticking to the rules (for once), he nearly loses Alex. And I must disagree with the idea Eames is at all like the other female partners on LOCI. She's one of the best written and acted female cops on TV, possibly one of the best female characters on TV. Only Olivia Benson and Mariska Hargarity's performance come close. I still wonder, though, how Bobby and Alex got from a place like "It's too late" to "You're the best. You always will be."Patcat That's easy! Different writers! But seriously, that's what I love about the wonderful, complex dynamaic between Bobby and Eames. It's just like any normal relationship, it has its ups and downs. Maybe Eames was feeling a little down when she said "It's too late," and was less careful of her tongue that she usually is around him. "You're the best, you always will be" came when their partnership was just ending, like a person whose life is passing before their eyes, she finalliy appreciates him for who he is. It could have been said earlier, and often, but better late than never. I thought that was a great scene myself. Plus, she has just been promoted to Captain, so she has probably had to rethink his role in her career; he hasn't held her back, she got a high-ranking job despite his so-called influence.
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Post by jeffan on Nov 12, 2010 10:35:26 GMT -5
Just watched this episode for the first time and, overall, I thought it a good one. On the negative side - it was obvious early on that Lesley was the killer (I know it’s not a who-dun-it) but, even her motivations were easy to work out. One example of the positive side, I chuckled that Bobby knew the system, even it’s name, of how Kettle arranged his books.
Was Dr. Goldman’s name ever cleared? I would presume so even though it wasn’t made explicit.
Why was this a Major Case case? Same reason as the Season One episode (forgotten title - could be Poison).
Why did Goren refer to his mother in the confrontation with the mentally ill mother? I think it was his strategy so she would release the child she was holding at knife-point. He even introduced Alex as Mrs Eames!
Did Toby’s sister have to die? That was sad but it added drama to the storyline.
Is LeZard like Nicole? Nelda? Did she fool Bobby? Did she fool Alex? I understand where these questions are coming from and, yes, there are similarities but only in the technicalities. She’s not as smart as Nicole - Bobby nailed Lesley first attempt. Bobby had feelings for Nelda whereas he didn’t for Lesley. I don’t think she could have fooled Alex either way as she didn’t have the same level of interaction with her as did Bobby. I don't think she fooled him at all and had his suspicions confirmed when she handed him her card the second time.
How did LeZard get her job? Didn’t someone check her credentials? Unfortunately, it’s a common occurrence for candidates to “massage” their references and for no-one to do a check.
How did LeZard get the information about Goren and Eames? Same way as Nichole.
Is there a junior or senior partner in Eames and Goren’s partnership? They have a good working relationship that doesn’t need to pull rank.
Why was this episode called SMILE? Nice easy title for an episode focussed on dentistry.
What did Eames mean by that last comment? Why did Goren even ask her? Please take into account that I have not watched all the episodes in Seasons Five, Six and Seven in replying to this question.
She did say she used to think about it but has moved on hence the “it’s too late” (forget exact words) as if it’s an irrelevant question now. If she had any sinister motives in her reply, I think she would have waited for Bobby’s response but she just walked away.
I thought it very appropriate Bobby asked the question after Lesley’s outburst - I know I would have in the same circumstances. To me, it showed Bobby’s appreciation of Alex and that he was conscious of the supposedly negative affect he has on her career.
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angua
Detective
Posts: 281
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Post by angua on Nov 12, 2010 10:37:44 GMT -5
I have to to add a comment here about the tone of her voice when she said "It's too late." Her tone of voice was calm, kinda sad, wistful, but it was not resentful. She does not resent her partner's tainiting of the relationship, she has accepted it and while she acknowledges it, she indicates by her tone that she has moved on.
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Post by Patcat on Nov 12, 2010 11:58:13 GMT -5
"Different writers" (G) Touche' Of course, the reason the last conversation between Bobby and Alex takes place in LeZard's office is because it moves the story faster and didn't require another set.
Patcat
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