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Post by Patcat on Jun 12, 2011 21:09:26 GMT -5
I liked it, but I thought the Dragon Mother did it from the start. No reason, really, just a feeling. But I found myself waiting for the psych session. I think what set Bobby off was that he just told Guyson he respected he and immediately after that he thought she believed he was hitting on her. That, and she wasn' t answering his direct questions.
Patcat
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kacesq
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Post by kacesq on Jun 12, 2011 21:13:53 GMT -5
I enjoyed this episode more than Trophy Wine and I honestly didn't think about the Tiger Mom until the very end. As Jenna Stern - the wife - and Camille Chen - Tiger Mom's daughter - both played memorable perps in previous L&O eppies, lol, I immediately figured one of them did it.
Don't quite know what to think about the psych session, I wasn't sure if we were supposed to think Goren had feelings for Gyson or what. It's the second episode in a row where he's reacted badly to the idea of hitting on someone - first Eames, now Gyson. I did think, though, that a part of him desperately wants this professionally-trained psychiatrist tell him that he was not too screwed up for a relationship, that it wasn't too late, etc. And her refusal to say that - which I think is the proper approach for a psychiatrist to take - is what set him off a bit.
Surprised that Steven Webber's role was so small.
ETA: Based on the promo of the psych sessions last week and the way they were edited, I predicted before tonite's eppy that this eppy would have the "not a good therapy candidate" and storming out, so that next session we get the "makeup" session setting up the finale where Gyson tells Goren whatever it is that Dick Wolf promised me would set the path for Goren's future happiness, lol.
ETA#2: As I mentioned in the poll post, the psych sessions are beginning to distract me from the actual crime and not in a good way because I spend the whole episode on edge waiting for it. Couple that with the knowledge that the "not a good candidate for therapy" scene was coming up and I wasn't happily anticipating it. To add to my quibble from last week, where we never found out what Goren did on his break from the NYPD, now I'm going to add that we have two more sessions and we haven't heard anything about Mark Ford Brady. Now I was not a fan at all of that little twist but sheesh, I have to think that the knowledge that his father was a serial killer had to affect him in some way and I would've thought that would've been a ripe area for the therapist. Couple that with all the stuff in tonite's episode about fathers/sons, sperm donors, mothers who lie, etc. and I was really kinda annoyed that the session veered off into Goren's romantic life or lack thereof. Again.
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Post by Techguy on Jun 12, 2011 21:23:12 GMT -5
Rosalind Chao will always be Keiko O'Brien to me. You can take Star Trek: The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine off the air, but you can't take STTNG or DS9 out of yours truly. All this episode needed was a return guest star appearance by Colm Meaney and then we really would have had something.
In any case, like PC I thought Dragon Mom was the killer all along. And to be honest, I thought the episode was quite ordinary--except for the imaginative method of body disposal--until the final scene between Goren and Dr. Gyson.
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Post by outerbankschick on Jun 12, 2011 22:11:43 GMT -5
OMG! Fabulous epi!
Bobby is SO projecting onto Dr. Gyson. Transferance, anyone? ;D
He blames her for his own projected feelings so he doesn't have to own them. He's afraid to own them! Can't wait to see how the "anger" conversation plays out next week. Holy cow!
I thought Mya was the culprit at first. Once they talked to her sister, I started wondering about her mother. Dragon Mom was a B***h and spot on. The actress who played Mya - good grief, she nearly had *me* in tears. She was wonderful!
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kacesq
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Post by kacesq on Jun 12, 2011 22:17:30 GMT -5
What feelings is he projecting? Cause that session confused the heck out of me, lol. Are we supposed to think he does have romantic feelings for Gyson?
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Post by outerbankschick on Jun 12, 2011 23:08:54 GMT -5
No, kacesq, not at all. It was what he said to her about how he asks her for her professional opinion and then she turns it back on him. She pulls him in, toys with him...then pushes back. (At least, that is how he sees it - she's not actually doing that.) And that is the relationship Bobby had with his mother.
Pull him in...push him away...want him to be with her...then tell him Frank would have done better. She finally told him the truth about Brady and told him she was sorry...then he's closer, leaning down, trying to understand, and she lashes out with her fists and hits at him to push him away again. "Why do you always do this?!"
What he is doing to Dr. Gyson is a classic case of transference. He assumes she is toying with him...playing head games with him...just the way Frances (and most likely Goren Sr.) did as well. He learned to manipulate from watching his parents. He learned to lie...to toy with people's emotions...to screw with their heads. (Remember "Mad Hops" - "Yeah...that's how I beat all my men on the court. Head fake!")
Damn that was some good stuff!
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kacesq
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Post by kacesq on Jun 12, 2011 23:18:45 GMT -5
Oh wow, outerbankschick, I totally did not even think about Frances but now it all falls into place. Thank you! You're right, that's exactly the relationship he had with his mother.
This makes perfect sense to me now. And it makes perfect sense in the context of the show - Frances being Bobby's most significant, most formative and probably the most damaging relationship.
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Leonore
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Post by Leonore on Jun 12, 2011 23:52:35 GMT -5
A few quick impressions and questions that I need to think about as I view the episode again.
Enjoyed Goren telling the cadaver being rolled into the room to "Try and stay in one place!"
Goren to Mrs. Langston, "Another marriage built on true love. We get a lot of that around here."
The whole dynamic of the Sam Harris situation: "You spent your whole life trying to be better than him." Harris, lied to by his mother describes his father as a monster. "She (Sam's mother) poisoned you against him." "You killed a man who would have loved to have had you as a son."
A cadaver is a corpse usually used for dissection. This definition in and of itself provides some thought provoking questions.
Is a man more than the sum of his parts? Is a cadaver merely a shell of a man? Are we watching the dissection of Goren in the Gyson sessions?
Can a man change his future? Can a "good girl (or boy!)" who cleans up the messes escape?
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Post by darmok on Jun 12, 2011 23:59:57 GMT -5
TG - I thought that was Keiko, but IMDB didn't have her credited so I thought I was wrong. Thanks for confirming (bet you couldn't tell I was a Start Trek fan).
I do wish the psyche sessions were a little more integrated with the actual episodes.
Off topic - are we getting an extra episode? Before this one, USA was advertising just 3 more episodes before the finale.
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Post by idget on Jun 13, 2011 8:39:30 GMT -5
The episode did seem to be about the potential devastating effects that extreme parenting can have on one's offspring. The case certainly had an effect on Goren all through out the episode. I find that the cases seem a little rushed in order to get the psych sessions in. As to the psych scene when one is in a therapeutic relationship trust is the most important issue. He asked her a direct question which she tried to redirect. She should have answered his question. She should have just said "Well in my opinion if you are willing to do ...... then ......". Whatever her opinion is she should have answered it. After watching the "Eames conspiracy" clip I also knew who the culprits were so I spent the episode trying to figure out their motive which became clear after the one student was revealed to be Steven Weber's son. There were a lot of repeat offender's in this episode including Frank Adair's' Mistress who also moonlighted as Mark Brady's attorney also the nanny looked like the same nanny in Happy Family.
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dimarec
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Post by dimarec on Jun 13, 2011 9:50:22 GMT -5
The shrink scene on youtube youtu.be/T0u_bbzKE2wI believe that Goren is wayyy ahead of his psychiatrist... Her hard work is just beginning.
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Post by maherjunkie on Jun 13, 2011 10:56:19 GMT -5
Better than last week. For once the vic was sympathetic. Killers were pretty obvious from the beginning-loved the sister! Took balls to step out and be who she was.
Can't believe the old gender bias still exists in tv-"We tried to have a son"- you try and have a baby B***h!
Like that Goren was the snarky one this week.
Love the shrink scene! Can't believe he was so manipulative to her-was afraid of getting close-but he felt legitimately hurt when she evaded the "Can I have a relationship?" question. That was what sent him into a tailspin.
I can't believe the mother was so sloppy in leaving the body out-unless she left it to the daughter?
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Post by Patcat on Jun 13, 2011 10:57:51 GMT -5
Good observations, OBC. I wonder if Dr. Guyson has done her homework on Bobby. What's in that huge file anyway? Combined with the "Push me, Pull you business", the idea that she thinks he's hitting on her would be a major insult to Bobby.
I also loved the remark as the corpse rolled by.
Patcat
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kacesq
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Post by kacesq on Jun 13, 2011 11:01:24 GMT -5
I could be wrong but I thought the daughter was there when the mother killed Steven Weber and that's why she sprang into action by switching the corpses, etc. I thought the mother said something about how shocked the daughter was when the mother brained Steven Weber...
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Leonore
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Post by Leonore on Jun 13, 2011 11:09:42 GMT -5
[quote author=dimarec board I believe that Goren is wayyy ahead of his psychiatrist... Her hard work is just beginning. [/quote]
Totally agree dimarec! I've said this from the beginning of these sessions. Gyson needs to deal with Goren on a different level because of his knowledge of interrogation techniques and psychological study. These sessions were mandated by the brass; Goren told Hannah that the sessions would be a waste of time at the beginning because IMO Goren knows what his problems are. What I think the sessions could do for Goren is give him some strategies to deal with or focus his approach to his issues. To me, Goren uses his issues to great advantage in his work, but needs to mitigate them in his personal life. Can that be reconciled?
I found this episode fascinating. Langston, the victim, from everything we're shown is a fine person. He loves his daughter, defends his wife when she's the butt of jokes, donates time and money to the betterment of the human condition through medical research and when he finds out he has a son, he reaches out to embrace him.
He is murdered and callously disposed of and no one mourns him but his daughter Stella. Joe Shlabotrik, on the other hand, is dead and being used as a medical specimen, his cadaver used in pranks and when finally slated to be discarded has a whole room full of people to mourn him a year after his death. Quite the contrast!
In another disturbing contrast, we see the dispassionate, clinical detachment toward the cadavers by the medical researchers and professionals who spend their working lives trying to keep people healthy. Contrast that with the callous, manipulative, obsessive parent /child relationships that in many ways seem like lab experiments gone very wrong and at what cost.
Throw in the dissection of Goren's psyche ...well, this was an amazingly well-written, layered episode for me.
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