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Post by trisha on Apr 21, 2004 21:05:29 GMT -5
I understand that. The way I see it is, Dale and Mrs. Townsen were already having the affair and when Paige found out, instead of just divorcing Dale, she used him to her advantage. She could have just threatened to expose the affair to the husband, but that wouldn't pay nearly as well as a son and heir to the Townsen fortune. She waited patiently and hoped that the pin holes in and fertility drugs would work, and it did. Only then did she put the money down on the ranch. But would she have enough hope to kill someone before Townsen got pregnant? She already had a very uncaring disposition, and even pointed out how easy it is to manipulate Dale. Who would say something like that about their spouse? BTW, welcome to the board Post often and have fun.
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Post by janetcatbird on Apr 22, 2004 23:05:25 GMT -5
But didn't the rich hubby say it was Page's idea for Dale to accompany the wife on the trips?
Best I could figure on the drug thing: Dale met the convict at the farm and got sucked into it--Page herself said something along the lines of "This wasn't my idea". One of those forgotten loose threads, I guess they got so distracted by the characters they forgot to do something (that we the viewers see anyways).
Yeah, Dale had some good qualities (wanting a better life for him and Page, sending the horse to the good farm), but bless his heart the boy was about as sharp as a bowling ball. One must admit he did a very good job of not attracting attention to his wife, even when he knew (remember her sweaty clothes and wet shower hair?). He must have felt he wasn't good enough for her ("I didn't think you wanted me anymore") and was trying to make himself worthwhile. But why on earth would she ally herself with him? Although a backstory of how they met and how long they'd been together is interesting to think about, I think the writers made a wise choice in not making it a point. THe characters did what they did, just go with it.
A couple tidbits from a friend who saw the episode--her family owns a horse farm. "Brood mares" are typically very passive, so for Page to say they put up more of a fight was basically calling Mrs. Townsend a loose ho. A couple of snickers from my friend: when they referred to Mariah having the number burned into her hoof that got a snort and a "yeah, right". Apparently SOP is to tatoo the number inside the lip. Burning the hoof would be painful, and very inconvenient for a carriage horse who needs to be out and moving around to be worthwhile. The line about coyotes: maybe Dale was being dismissive, or maybe he genuinely didn't know any better. I didn't think coyotes lived in NY, but out in the country she said it's a possibility. THe stupid thing would be coyotes attacking a horse, especially one that big. Just passing stuff on from one in the know...
Sorry it took so long to write, I missed the beginning of the episode and tonight was the first chance I had to watch the tape. (I had seen from the house interview on, so I guess that ruined it by knowing the ending.) Maybe not a favorite, but certainly not bad either.
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nick5oh
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 53
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Post by nick5oh on Apr 23, 2004 2:37:51 GMT -5
In New York City, the numbers issued by the health department to carriage horses are indeed burned onto the hoof.
And coyotes now range all through the Northeast.
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Post by Metella on Apr 23, 2004 6:26:10 GMT -5
Yes, coyotes are all over the lower 50 states; in Rhode Island, near to me, they have issued a few warnings about bringing in your dogs and cats ...... RI is even less inviting than NYState for a wild canine. The issue is more pressed in RI and MA I think, because it is settled without area for the coyotes ..... so any coyote is a problem. In your lovely state, there are some BIG areas a coyote can live in and just burn off a sneak attack once in a while on the domestic animals. I say, buy bigger dogs and leave your cats inside.
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rune
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 62
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Post by rune on Apr 23, 2004 9:18:43 GMT -5
Having a Health Department number burned into the hoof actually makes more sense than a tattoo. Tattooing is used for permanent identification, breed registrations, etc. While Health Department inspections would be a recurring thing -- if the horse went too long without being inspected the number would grow down and either wear or be trimmed off.
Maybe your friend with the farm misunderstood? Maybe she thought they meant the underside of the hoof or "frog" of the foot? That would be very painful. I'm not saying she/he is wrong, but I grew up with horses and my sister still has several.
What I know from working with them is that a hoof is like a really thick toenail. Burning a number into the outside wouldn't hurt at all (no more than it hurts when you trim your nails) unless you actually burned all the way through the hoof, which would be really deep and unnecessary for reading the number.
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Post by trisha on Apr 23, 2004 16:00:48 GMT -5
Observer, I didn't mean Mariah was literally a mule, but next the horses she traveled with, she may as well have been I guess I didn't phrase my post as well as yours, but what you wrote about Mrs. Townsend being "Ill-Bred" is what I meant when I wrote, "who's ill bred now?" She has seen her last fancy horse owners party. Catbird, thanks for bringing up the disposition of brood mares. That line is much more cutting when you know that. So, Paige knew Mrs. Townsend would have an affair with anyone and that's why she married Dale, and sent him with Mrs. Townsend on her trips? That weakens the plot for me. If she did it out of a wife's revenge, I could see the patience and careful planning because the pay off would be really worth it and half the work is done- the affair is already in progress. But to have been planning it all before she even had a husband to *stud* for her... I dunno. Plus, why wouldn't she stop the smuggling? She knew about it, and all her planning would go down the tubes if Dale was arrested or killed. Perhaps Dale not only being a lowly ranch hand, but a drug smuggler as well was something she thought she could use against Mrs. Townsend for more money-- he's not just common folk, he's a common criminal....
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Post by Metella on Apr 23, 2004 17:16:20 GMT -5
I thought it was Mrs. TOWNSEND who finally got ratted out as requesting Dale be on the trips. So that would fit with Paige not knowing about the affair until it was going on.
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Post by janetcatbird on Apr 23, 2004 21:18:11 GMT -5
Well, in my friend's defense that comment about the hoof being painful was my assumption, but the skepticism and the comment about the lip did come from her. Her family does shows and breeding, they have for several years. One of the pictures on her desk was her on an Arabian dressed up for a competition, so she does some riding with that.
Eh, waddo I know about coyotes? I've lived in the suburbs all my life, with houses on the edge of the woods. Our biggest concern was copperheads.
I don't imagine Page had planned this whole thing out before she even met Dale. What did he say she thought he was: "a big sweethearted dummy?" Probably she thought he was the best she could get, so she might as well get a guy she could manipulate or work around as needed. I don't imagine she planned the affair, but took advantage of it--seems to me she was attentive enough to find out even without someone point-blank telling her.
When did Mrs. Townsend admit to asking for Dale? I know she called her daughter from his room in Moscow, but that's all I got. My assumption, I'm sure I missed something so just let me know, but my theory was: 1) Dale and the Mrs. fell to the devil's aerobics, somehow. 2) Page found out but Dale didn't know she knew, leading to... 3) Coming up with the plan of fertility drugs and messed-up condoms and 4)Her suggesting to Mr. Townsend that Dale accompany the Mrs. just to provide an opportunity for her plan to take effect
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Post by Metella on Apr 24, 2004 5:42:30 GMT -5
Mrs. Townsend never admitted to Dale coming along being her idea; but I thought MR. Townsend told Goren it was she who suggested he would be helpful. The kind of "ah ha" moment, when it is realized why one has danced around what could have been just a normal thing - if it was normal, why try to shift attention away from it? Because your MOTIVE wasn't normal (ie: wanting the better handler to keep the HORSES calm)
But I only watched it once, so I could have picked that line up wrong.
Anyway - copperheads? fairly pretty as far a snakes go - I was almost out of my head when one bit my dog - who just trod right on it! The dog didn't even swell up. Guess that copperhead was conserving his toxin.
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Post by trisha on Apr 24, 2004 9:42:12 GMT -5
I thought Mr. Townsend said it was Paige's idea to send Dale. Then Paige told Goren and Eames almost immediately that Dale is easily manipulated, and at the end said the same of Mrs. Townsend. To me that suggests she only married Dale so she could create and "Ill-Bred" baby so that she could get what she thinks she deserves. She definitely had feelings of entitlement, which is why she dreamed of owning her own ranch. To me, this is what makes Goren's last line about a ranch only being a good place to live if your a horse make sense. Horses aren't concerned with ownership or breeding.
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Post by Metella on Apr 24, 2004 14:48:07 GMT -5
Well, if Paige hatched this up BEFORE she even married - whew - I am even more disconnected from this convoluted plot. It is hard enough to swallow as the spurned and vengeful wife. But I give you the interpretation of that scene with Mr. Townsend as I do not remember it clearly & I bet you have watched it a second time?
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Feb 16, 2005 11:32:53 GMT -5
My kind of criminals; selfcentered, selfish, greedy, beady eyed - - - normal person who gave in to the base desires and then got got. what a lovely present to leave the elitist woman with. and a criminal with a soft heart, showing that the bad can have some good as he sends the over worked horse to a safe spot. This is more like it - shades of Gray with a more typical major case criminal (I say MC because poverty, ignorance, mental illness etc all are a large part of petty crimes) The planning that Paige did, a little too tricky - a little to uncertain to work for me to really buy it, but it came together nicely in the end. (pun intended) Major editing problem in the scene where Deakins was talking to Goren & Eames re: D'Onofrio's left hand placement ..... two cuts when his hand/arm could not have moved from the two positions in that amount of time - full extened w/pencil & then folded with the other arm; and it happened twice - but oh well. Like it. This is one of my favorites!! But the only thing that bothers me a little is the writers lack of horse-knowledge that would only be present to a horse fanatic like myself. For example, the 'needle marks' on the legs of the dead horses could have been something called 'pin firing' (it is kind of like 'acupuncture', it's an old racing practice. It's a bit outdated, I imagine they've found more modern ways now since its been years since I've seen a pin fired horse). If they were going to dope them they would shoot it through the vain in the neck, it is a quicker path to the bloodstream, the blood flow down by the hooves is at its slowest so it doesn't make any sense to put the drugs in there & it would almost have to go through the horse's entire system before it got to its destination. They mentioned an ID number being burned into the bottom of her hoof, this doesn't make sense either since the number would eventually grow out only to be cut off by the farrier when he shod the horse. Lip tattooing is mainly done on racehorses for cosmetic reasons, owners don't want any marks on their precious money-makers. A horse like Mariah would most likely have had something called a 'freeze brand' which is done on the side of her neck that the mane lays on. Freeze branding is a more humane method using the same substance that is used to remove warts, it causes the hair to die & turn white in the pattern of a ID number but doesn't damage the skin in the way a traditional brand does. Sorry for the bad editing, I was sick with a cold when I edited it the last time.
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Post by rosemary on Dec 21, 2005 17:37:52 GMT -5
@ kawaiidragonfoe: Well, now that I know that you are a horse person, too, I'd like to comment on that. When I heard about the "needle marks" on the legs of the horses I was thinking about a "boil machine". They were quite popular in Central Europe when I was still a child. My siblings and I used to tell each other scary stories about horse abuse, and "boil machines" were often part of them. It is a small pistol containing injections of salt (NaCl) dissolved in water, which can be more or less concentrated. They are injected into the horse's legs to emphasize its feeling of pain when hitting and obstacle in show-jumping. As "boil machines" ruin the horses they are ususally in use by horse hustlers who only want to demostrate how high the horses lift their legs when jumping. I found the use of a "boil machine" understandable at first, because these horses all were show-jumpers, but it does not make much sense if you want to have a horse as a steady compagnion. As for the branding/tattoo thing... Well, my horses were branded, in the traditional way, with the iron heated over a gasfuelled flame. It takes at least three strong men to do this. One, who applies the iron to the foal's hip, and two to restrain the foal. The branding of the oneyearolds was always a great day in my life, by the way. -- In my childhood I never heard about freeze burning. I had known about the birds and bees for nearly 10 years when I found out what this was about. Tattos, on the inner side of the upper lip are not uncommen in Central Europe, Germany and other countries as well. However, the owners of expensive horses now tend to have a chip (the one which fundamentalists call the mark of the beast) implanted into them. Branding the upper hoof does not hurt at all. When the farrior applies the shoe "warm" (a blacksmith will never call iron hot, only warm) it also burns part of the hoof which causes a sharp, but not unpleasant smell. I'm sure Goren would appresciate it, too. I've never heard about branding the hooves of horses other than soon to be dog-food ones. These horses are traditionally branded with a triangled symbol on the upper hoof, because most state laws require that a horse bought to be slaughtered must be slaughtered, because otherwise it would be a fraud. Well, my personal nits include: The stable looks a little unfamiliar. The horses boxes are labelled with the names of their owners and nothing else. That is unusual. The plate on a horse's box usually bears the name of the horse, and if a thouroughbred, the suffix xx or ox, respectively, as well as the stud who sired it and the mare who bore it. "The saddle room". I would not leave my expensive saddles and bridles in a room everyone, including other horse owners can easily access. I know people who keep their saddle in their bedroom. I'm not into this, but nevertheless...
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Post by kawaiidragonfoe821 on Dec 22, 2005 18:10:39 GMT -5
You know, Rosemary I never thought of a boil machine or pain-heightening injections. Jumping has never been my regimen but I' am vaguely familiar with the practice of heightening a horse's sensitivity to pain (through a friend who is a champion show jumper) It is cruel what some people will do you that damn blue ribbon. Just look at what gaited horses have to go through (soring, tail numbing etc...).
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Post by rosemary on Dec 28, 2005 13:25:38 GMT -5
That's true. BTW, my mare was a gaited horse, but I kept her as a companion and for "free-time riding". I never went to tournaments, competitions and so on. Goren's comment, that a life on a horse farm is a good life for a horse sounds weird to me. Many horses do not have a good life an "Ill-Bred" confirms this. Well, Goren said that he does not know much about horses (which, of course, could be fishing for compliments) but he knows how human beings treat each other. Why should they, in general, treat animals better?
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