Imus In The Morning

[DonnaJo]

Has anyone been following the Imus controversy concerning his racist remarks about the Rutgers girls basketball team? It's big news around here in the New York area.

My husband, an intelligent, thoughtful, sensitive man, sometimes catches Imus' morning show on NBC before heading off to work. We know Imus can basically be a jerk, but he has good guests & does do a tremendous job with his ranch for terminally ill children. Most of the time, the person who is the most insulted by others on the show & the butt of terribly tasteless jokes is Dan Imus himself. Not that I am making excuses. What he did was tasteless, derogatory, rude & a terrible insult to those talented, intelligent, hard working young women on the team. He is and should be punished.

What bothers me is that every morning his crew does a tasteless parody of Cardinal Egan of the Catholic Church. One of his guys puts a Fed Ex envelope on his head, a silly replication of the Cardinal's hat, and rants on & on in a ridiculous Irish brogue. He pretends to be chanting the litany of the mass, but inserts derisions, jokes & insults of pedophile priests, political figures, women as a whole, and mostly Imus himself.

Why hasn't anyone , like an Al Sharpton, ever complained about this? I'm not saying it's the same, but to make such a federal case about a racist remark while ignoring all of the other rude, tastless, bigoted, prejudicial remarks/acts his show presents is a tad hypocritical.

To me, Sharpton is a political animal who knows an opportunity to capitalize when he sees one. He is no Jesse Jackson, that's for sure.

[noc]

I haven't been following it, but Rev. Sharpton and Imus were on the Today show this morning. It was also discussed on a radio talk show on my way to work.

I haven't seen his show and your description of the Catholic paradoy sounds disturbing. I'm not Catholic, but I get tired of the old, tired, worn out Catholic jokes.

There was discussion on either the Today Show or the radio show that Don Imus said his language was similar to rappers. I agreed with the host comments that, if this country gets to the point where we want grownups, who are 3 times the age of rappers, to be able to talk like a rapper...then, let's just roll it up and go home. It was a ridiculous excuse for Imus to say that, as a comedy show, he should parody "rapper talk" (if I understood right). I don't know if that is his rationale or just what I heard today. I won't listen or watch him since I found these comments REALLY offensive and not funny, but I wasn't part of his audience to begin with. We wouldn't have many rappers if the records didn't sell.

That said, Rev. Sharpton is a politician. But, he sure is keeping the fire under Imus. Now, who can represent the Catholics against Imus?

[ragincajun]

I don't believe its right to say what was said, but what I hate more, is when people say, " we can say that to each other but you can't say it to us" aka rappers and such, If your offended by the words the words shouldn't be used by anyone, no matter what religion or color or sex.

[Patcat]

There are some wrtiers (not all of them apologists for the Catholic church) who suggest that anti-Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice. But at the same time the Catholic Church has caused and does cause so many people so much pain that the insitution often invites hatred.

As an ambivalent Catholic, I'm not sure if I'm the best person to discuss this.

Patcat

[DonnaJo]

Patcat,

Your comment about the Catholic Church being the last "acceptable" prejudice is sadly accurate. I see it where I work, and constantly have to represent to people that the actions of a few are not the actions of the many. That is what prejudice is all about. For example, people see violent crime in the media committed by mostly blacks & hispanics & therefore label all individuals in those groups as violent by nature.

It's true that many lapsed Catholics have been further pushed away from the church because of the recent scandal. I just want to point out that most experts agree that there is no reason to assume the rate of child sexual abuse to be greater among Catholic clergy than among Protestant. Commentators on the issue have noted that the sins of the Catholic church are easier to ferret out because of the rigid church structure and record-keeping, whereas Christian churches–particularly evangelical, Pentecostal, and especially nondenominational—are often characterized by a lack of accountability.

There are bad apples in every bunch.

[deathroe]

I don't even like CI's handling of Roman Catholicism. It's on the extreme side, IMO. I should add--I'm a Catholic of one week's standing but one without a huge ax to grind. I appreciate the diversity in Catholicism, actually. (I don't like certain stereotypes of Italians on L&O and on tv in general either, but that's a separate issue *g*)

I don't know anything about the Imus controv, not really, but I see bigotry under the guise of humor as perennially disturbing. I saw absolutely nothing redeeming about Borat--but we know a lot of people went to see it.

[DonnaJo]

Well, Imus has been fired. First by MSNBC, where his radio show was televised live every morning. That wasn't enough, however. Sharpton, Jackson & a few others had a meeting with CBS, who buckled under the pressure & fired Imus, thereby canceling his talk radio show, which millions tune into every morning.

All I can say is that I feel very bad for Charles McCord, Imus' sidekick on the show. The man has always been the voice of reason, very intelligent & articulate. Hope CBS & NBC take care of him.

[noc]

1. I find stereotyping (Catholics, rappers, war veterans, Italians, Jews, etc) a lazy technique for writers. What is interesting about people is that the majority of people aren't the stereotype. That sounds like an oxymoron, but a lot of people wear masks based on what is expected of them. I love it when CI explores the bigger societal/family issues.
2. I find most of the religious and ethnic jokes offensive. I find mocking other people's religion a little rude, and to say "i can make fun out of my religion but not you" is common but odd to me. I remember my grandfather's stories of not being able to practice his religion in Russia, so my perception is it is a privilege that the US is so open to most religions.
3. I'm of the age where I've had to deal with not being able to do something because of my religion, sex, etc. I haven't found it hurt me personally, but my parents taught me it is the other person's problem - not mine. Of course, I wasn't around pre-1960 and we do need to guard against accepting that it is "ok" to be racist, anti-Catholic, etc. It's ok to be different from each other.

All that said the folks in my office say Imus was fired because he apologized. Not very well from what I saw. It seemed like he was saying I could make this joke because other people do it. Very weak.

[SarahIvy]

I've never listened to Don Imus, only read about him. I know people who listen to the more news-oriented segments and interviews on his show.

I DO know from reading that he has said plenty of deeply offensive things about many different kinds of people over the years. Why this particular comment was the tipping point I have no idea, the media seems to have just latched on and run with it.

I have mixed feelings about the firing and cancellation of his show. This whole thing walks the line between free speech and hate speech and there is definitely some hypocrisy to it. Given the climate and the other people working in broadcasting who get away with making disgusting comments all the time (hmmm, let's see, O'Reilly, Beck, Limbaugh, Dr. Laura, ect and so forth), it seems extreme. It feels like a manipulation and an effort on the part of the media to "manufacture" a firestorm.

And yet...there is a part of me that hopes this is a slippery slope, that maybe, just MAYBE this will lead to harsher punishment and stricter rules for hate speech by others.

It blows my mind that people like Imus, or Limbaugh, or O'Reilly even have fans and listeners in the first place, let alone so many of them. I suspect a lot of people confuse the bile they spew with being a "straight talker" or "outspoken"....when it's really just thinly, if at all, veiled misogyny, racism, homphobia and ugliness. There's no real strength in being a bully.

donna said:

Patcat,

Your comment about the Catholic Church being the last "acceptable" prejudice is sadly accurate.

I would very politely disagree with this, just for the sake of pointing out that plenty of prejudices are alive and well and would easily be considered the last acceptible prejudice by those who regularly experience them firsthand. Except, of course, for the sad fact that there are so very many of them.

[noc]

SarahIvy wrote much more concisely and more objectively about how I feel about Imus, O'Reilly, etc. I feel similar about Howard Stern, although he's just a grossly offensive perv than these other people.

I'm not sure why this struck a nerve, but for me, it was the whole 60ish white guy talking like a rapper. He just seemed to be slamming too many people. These are female athletes, but I also suspected it was impacted by a slow news day. I do think his apology made things worse.

I'm all for freedom of speech. I'm also all for writing to advertisers to get some of these folks off the air. I find Laura S pretty offensive, but I just don't listen to her.

About the Catholic issue, I think there is a lot of prejudice here about a number of the "older" religious groups. I thought Dan Brown's books pretty exploitive about it. I grew up going to a Catholic school and the nuns were young, caring, and committed to the inner city. We went on canoe trips, field trips, etc. The dozen or so I knew were good to me and I assume most others. The priests I knew in college were also wonderful and helped my best friend as she was dying from cancer. I don't have extensive experience with going to the Catholic church, but there is plenty of inappropriate sexual interactions in other religions, too. I've known scandals of several small town ministers having affairs that gotten out and hurt the church. I guess it happens. Probably not as much as seen on tv. My minister in my 30s was a reformed alcoholic, which means she was human. So, I'm kind of the stand by people when they are down type. Except for Imus, of course.

[maherjunkie]

I think the response to him was extreme. Suspension, sure but not firing. Why hire a shock jock to make controversial comments and then be surprised when they do?.....

[diablodeblanco]

Sharpton and Jackson have very little if no room to point fingers and demand anything. Wasn't it Jackson who referred to New York City as "heimmy town"? Wasn't it Sharpton leading the charge on the Towanda fiasco? I don't recall anyone demanding those two get fired. I don't recall sponsers who supported their organizations pulling their support and $. I feel it is a blatant example of how the powers that be mishandle the race/gender issue. And don't get me started on Louis Farrakhan. I'm not saying what these people, including Imus or Stern or rappers, say is acceptable or appropriate. I AM saying that everyone should be treated equally. Afterall, isn't that what the whole thing should be about. I am not advocating censorship. I believe in free speech. Just that there should not be different levels of punishment.

[diablodeblanco]

I think what has caused so much animosity towards the catholic church is that in many cases the institution was aware of the pedefile priests and didn't do enough to appropriately deal with them. In many cases these priests got away with offending for years, even decades because they were shuffled from one parish to another unsuspecting one when things heated up. Some of the priests were sent to a rehabilition center somewhere for a while and when they left, were returned to the same situation that enabled them to offend in the first place. The last I heard there was no "cure" for a pedefile, hence the restrictions on where they can live/work/travel. It would certainly be inappropriate to put them back in a position of authority over young children or even access to them. I'm sure other religions get caught up in the same thing but from the amount that has been in the news it seems it is more often in the catholic church either that or the catholic church just gets more attention. Whatever the reason is certainly offending priests/pastors/ministers or whatever need to be removed permanently from their positions when they commit crimes against children.

[ragincajun]

Being fired probably doesn't affect him much financially ( he probably has money saved, invested, and will probably get a book deal or another job with another station) as much as the lower people that worked behind the scenes on his show, which probably includes minorities, wonder if Jackson and Sharpton thought of that. I think a hefty fine and suspension would have been better than being fired.

[DonnaJo]

Well, I'm sure that Al Sharpton & to a certain extent, Jesse Jackson, are privately thrilled to have another controversy to sink their political teeth & aspirations into.

As our beloved Detective Goren would say to this...

"I see blood in the water,"