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Post by NikkiGreen on Feb 14, 2007 10:59:31 GMT -5
Well, that certainly was something. Can't put a finger on it but it was something.
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Post by Metella on Feb 14, 2007 11:14:23 GMT -5
that's right - when "I" pushed the guy off the roof .... well, since he was pleding for his life & backing up .... we can assume he knew what "My" intent was ...... So why doesn't he fight back? I thought that at the time ... big bad dude, just back off the roof crying? Sh*t give me a break.
I also thought Williams shanked the guy himself - that is how he got in so easy - he was a cop & the guards knew him & just turned the other way.
and WORD about Carmen breaking down because of some spray paint tagging .... if she can figurative spit in the cop's eyes ... then she wouldn't break down for that small thing.
& the motive??? PLUUEEZZZ
Sorry for the new writer - I don't know what constraints WL put on him; so I will hold off judgement on his talent until I see more - but this episode was a mess.
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Post by mikeyrocks on Feb 14, 2007 11:47:56 GMT -5
Like Patcat I did like his episode - BUT - Like her and most everyone else I had some problems with it. It almost seems as if it was rushed - the editing was way too choppy and they just shoved to much stuff at us. It had abit of a chaotic feel to it - perhaps that was intended - I don't know. I'm somewhat annoyed by it though - As I thought it had the potential to actually be a really good episode. I really wish that they had dealt more with Williams and his confilcit btwn his profession and the ineffectivness and resistance that they get from his community that could have been really interesting . I suppose in the end that point is mote though - As he gave up his badge AND then shanked G-Man at Rikers . There are a couple scenes that I found wonderful though. The fire escape scene was wonderfully done - Like how they turned the tables there - having Mike running up the fire escape no weapon drawn totally oblivious like a young GREEN thing AND then there's Wheeler right on the ball . Mikey does still have some impulses issues ;D Also LOVED the scene in Ross's office btwn. the Chief of D's , Logan and Ross. Go Logan. Was the guys name really Chief Wank - I missed that one LOL!!
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Post by DonnaJo on Feb 14, 2007 11:54:54 GMT -5
I agree with Metella on the whole spray painting thing. Carmen was way too tough to lose it & spill her guts so easily to a duo of white cops. Not to mention, how coincidental was it that after days of honoring the dead rapper, someone spray paints the memorial the precise minute Carmen shows up? Come on writer's give us viewers some credit.
Loved the scene with Gordon, (a great acting job, BTW) Ross & Wheeler in the interrogation room. Provoking them by saying Wheeler finds him hot, and Ross' anger over the comment. Calling Wheeler Ross' "shortie" -obvious embarrassment there by Ross. Wonder if he does have some feelings for her?
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Post by ragincajun on Feb 14, 2007 12:16:10 GMT -5
Love my son, but he decided to visit last night, so missed some scenes, he knows tuesday nights is my Law and Order nights. I watch CI then SVU. Will need to rewatch CI, which will take a lot, since what I saw I really didn't care for. Yeah Logan listens to rap all the time, like the snark. Think Wheeler was really off in the episode, with Carmen, we could have learned a little more of her background, but Carmen kicked her butt. Also her telling Williams about when they found out about who Carmen was, that allowed him to get Carmen out of town. At NBC.com, I thought Gman was tooo obvious to be the killer, and thought Det. Williams would end up being the killer. But guess, writers went for the obvious here. Thought Luther was too scared to kill anyone, thought Williams would kill to protect Carmen. But I was wrong and in the end disappointed.
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Post by hannah on Feb 14, 2007 12:18:12 GMT -5
I hope Goren and Eames comes back next episode and say "is that glass new?" from when Logan broke it.
:]
Not my favorite, but it didnt suck either and entertained me.
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Post by Sirenna on Feb 14, 2007 12:21:45 GMT -5
I liked the setting and the actors. I'm sure they used real clubs, rap studios and rappers. The situation rang true but the emotions didn't. I think Logan was awfully flip in saying the motive was about "who's da man". It was really about respect for women at least from the preacher's point of view.
And both he and Wheeler and the force as a whole came across as somewhat ethnocentric and stubborn in sticking to the techniques that were so troublesome and dangerous to both the community and the police themselves. They never listened to Williams in terms of how to deal with people or why witnesses wouldn't talk. I thought it was cruel of them to diliberately put the girl in danger in order to, it seemed, prove themselves right.
Definately among my least favourite of the season.
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Post by Techguy on Feb 14, 2007 13:15:28 GMT -5
I hope Goren and Eames notice the new window, take out a paper towel, wipe the glass and say "Missed a spot."
I took another look at the final scene at Rikers Island, and now it sure does look like it's Williams doing the knife job on Gordon-T. Which creates even more problems story-wise for me: ---after turning in his badge, what ID did Williams use to gain access to the prison? ---didn't the guards at the entry gate get suspicious when Williams walks or drives up dressed up exactly like the prison population? Or did he bring a wardrobe change with him and change clothes in the men's room? ---isn't it convenient Gordon-T is left alone in the corridor at precisely the exact moment Williams enters the picture? ---if a surveillance camera is recording the killing, how come there's absolutely no response from anyone and Williams or whoever it is can exit with no alarms going off? I suppose all the guards are on lunch break and nobody's minding the store?
Further evidence of sloppy lazy writing with little or no concern for relevant details, or respect for the intelligence of the viewer.
BTW, I gave the police chief the name Chief Wank. "Wank" is a derogatory word, mostly used in British and Australian slang and is a crude reference to self-gratification when combined with "off." "Wank" also has a secondary meaning--a detestable person. Either way the name fits.
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Post by Metella on Feb 14, 2007 13:25:40 GMT -5
Well - as to the shank scene - I think the guards KNEW what was planned -
when they left him waiting for the other door to open - you see in the backgroud a guard turn his back to the hall & you know there was noise & he didn't move. That way he can SAY he didn't hear anything (can't prove that) and therefore he had no need to turn around and look. Also Williams got a small nod from a guard outside so that shows they LET him in - no badge needed. So for me, if my clues are interpreted correctly - that scene actually made the most sense in the whole episode.
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Post by Techguy on Feb 14, 2007 13:37:52 GMT -5
Thanks for your explanation Metella. If what you say is true, then it raises the awful spectre of prison guards aiding and abetting a murder by a (former?) cop and allowing him to escape. What a commentary on the quality of police at Rikers Island. I'm sure NYPD and the actual guards at RI must be thrilled with their portrayal.
BTW, I still like Logan and Wheeler too, it's the story that's a big problem for me.
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Post by sobergal95 on Feb 14, 2007 13:48:14 GMT -5
I actually only recorded this episode and watched the Westminster Dog Show, and after reading the comments here I am not eager to even bother watching it. Please please please don't let it be a rap version of "Country Crossover". So we've had a country music episode and a rap episode this season, had the opera last season, what musical genre will they tackle next?
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Post by Metella on Feb 14, 2007 13:49:25 GMT -5
They need the pace of a Ska band ! to make up for lost time.
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Post by Techguy on Feb 14, 2007 13:57:39 GMT -5
Sobergal95, unfortunately the REAL dog show was on NBC last night and it most definitely was NOT best in show!
And if the next CI episode starts out with a gospel music video when Tom Arnold is on the screen, I just might lose my dinner.
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effie
Detective
off chasing plot bunnies...
Posts: 264
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Post by effie on Feb 14, 2007 14:51:44 GMT -5
I had some of the same problems as others -- but I did think it was an interesting look at just what the NYPD is up against -- the lack of trust and respect -- from the population, and even it seems within the ranks based on that firecracker scene with the Chief. Which I did sort of like as it was another look at the kind of pressure Cap'n Danny is dealing with and why he is both so hands on and so cranky by times.
The actual NYPD isn't doing so great lately after that major shoot-out in Queens a while back that was referenced in the episode, and so I found it sort of interesting to look at the tensions out there that Major Case doesn't usually have to deal with as they are ususally dealing with perps who are well off...not those living in the projects...
Lots of in-fighting and bickering -- between departments, between wits, and perps, and bosses and ...
the feeling of barely controlled chaos was interesting...
I couldn't help thinking that if this had been a G/E or Balcer episode the kid with the spray can at the memorial would have been a plant designed to give Carmen the push she needed to spill.
Then there would have been some sense to her just up and suddenly talking. That felt a bit too much like the driver from last week just all of a suddenly giving it up...
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Post by lana0926 on Feb 14, 2007 15:29:07 GMT -5
Charles Kipp, who wrote this ep, if memorys serves me correctly, cowrote Exiled with Chris Noth.
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