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Post by diablodeblanco on Jul 9, 2008 22:39:02 GMT -5
I am glad to know that someone else with discernment feels this might be the case. I think though that I've finally put my finger on why that bothers me so much. It is out of line with classic L&O, where both for the Law and Order sides there were corrupt members but never a corrupt body. I feel, again, that this reflects a general cynicism in society. I hope they find some way to pull the protagonists out of this darkness and restore them to grace and health. Speaking of health--Techguy, I hope that your eyes are recovering well! Somewhere back in the umteen pages we have on this, I felt the same way. Goren was not being paranoid. He sensed something was up just not sure what. Who the bad guy is we don't know at this point and may never know.
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Post by Patcat on Jul 10, 2008 8:53:20 GMT -5
Glad you're back, Techguy!
I wonder if the Adair affair has left divisions in the NYPD? I may be naive, but I don't believe all of the Department is corrupt, and surely some of its members know the real reason behind Captain Deakins' departure?
I also don't want to think the Chief of D's is completely corrupt, but rather a man who simply doesn't want to be bothered by the moral quandries Goren keeps throwing at him. (It's my belief that stupidity, ignorance, and laziness are as deadly, if not more so, than active evil in this world). That said, I'd love to see the Chief get his comeuppance.
I'd be surprised to see the return of the Evil One on Warren Leight's watch, but stranger things have and do happen.
And Techguy, I relate to the eye issues. I'm so horribly nearsighted that even if I had the laser or RK surgery I'd still have to wear glasses or contacts and I have to watch out for detached retinas. Hope your eyes are ok.
Patcat
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jul 10, 2008 10:20:22 GMT -5
I think the Adair mess splashed on many people, in the department and elsewhere. Did it create fractures in the department infrastructure?....I believe so. After Adair's untimely departure there was probably some chaos. Hangers on and brown nosers would have been looking for new hosts. The higher ups are not just career cops but politicos also. Chief of Ds is just one of them. I'm sure he walks a tightrope between those two camps as do others of his kind. As to the corruptness.....their world would not be black and white. Shades of gray would be the predominant color palette and in that moral rainbow they would function. Enter Goren who sees the world differently. His is more of a black and white one. Although at times he has selected a path of gray. They probably view him as an ongoing problem in their world of problems. They never really solve him, just deal with him. Deakins was a realist. He understood that sometimes by losing you win......example his retiring.
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Post by DonnaJo on Jul 10, 2008 13:51:50 GMT -5
At first I didn't get this. Why would Goren think someone, particularly the Chief, wanted him dead? And why would the Chief want one of his best Detectives dead? After all, didn't Ross accuse Goren of being paranoid in thinking such things?
Yet, that little smirk on the Chief's face when he opened up that manilla envelope containing Goren's badge & gun seemed odd, almost suspicious. I'm not saying that the Chief set up Goren to be killed. But I suppose he would turn the other way if it did happen. He certainly didn't ensure that he wouldn't be hurt.
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Post by Patcat on Jul 10, 2008 16:05:20 GMT -5
Why did the Chief scream at Goren when he revealed Copa was an unreliable witness? Why did he call him a "whack job" in front of other cops? The Chief obviously doesn't appreciate Goren.
And from Mr. Bogosian's reading of the paranoid line, I had the sense Ross felt the Chief might be out to get Goren too.
Patcat
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Post by outerbankschick on Jul 10, 2008 17:16:26 GMT -5
FWIW, I don't think Bobby was being paranoid either. After repeated viewings, and untold number of hours spent musing, it seems to me that there is at least someone in the upper echelons of the department that wouldn't mind seeing Bobby seriously harmed, if not killed. Whether it's the Chief himself, or one of his lackeys, remains to be seen. (Or not, depending on what the show-runners have in store for us - and Bobby!)
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Post by deathroe on Jul 10, 2008 17:48:41 GMT -5
Nicole is sleeping with the Chief of D's ...
And yet, even that ludicrous scenario would pull the show out of the darkness by externalizing the dark forces working against Goren (JMO).
Does anyone else feel like they are making up all this sturm and drang as they go along? *coughcough*
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jul 10, 2008 20:09:49 GMT -5
I think they are at a loss for new material. If the headlines don't have much to offer than they are relegated to Plan B.......the Goren pinata.
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Post by DonnaJo on Jul 10, 2008 20:37:47 GMT -5
Nicole is sleeping with the Chief of D's ... Brilliant, deathroe. That would really be a return to classic LOCI. And bring the old in with the new.;D
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Post by deathroe on Jul 10, 2008 22:16:57 GMT -5
I love this, too. Pinata ... or punching bag! *s*
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Post by quietfireca on Jul 12, 2008 2:57:09 GMT -5
FWIW, I don't think Bobby was being paranoid either. After repeated viewings, and untold number of hours spent musing, it seems to me that there is at least someone in the upper echelons of the department that wouldn't mind seeing Bobby seriously harmed, if not killed. Whether it's the Chief himself, or one of his lackeys, remains to be seen. (Or not, depending on what the show-runners have in store for us - and Bobby!) It's another "me, too" post! Bobby wasn't being paranoid about the CofD's hoping he'd be killed - and Ross acknowledged it with "the thought occurred to me". (that Stoat was working for the CofD's might have bordered on paranoid....) Couple that with the "whack job" comment (how unprofessional can you get?? I'm outraged at that!) and the 6 month suspension. The CofD's is torturing Bobby. And it sure as heck isn't going to go un-noticed by members in the other departments. The pack mentality (as someone has already aptly described it) has formed. What a horrible culture to work in. Guaranteed to wear a guy (or gal) down. *sigh* From re-watching the conversation with Ross in Olivet's office, it appears the Captain might just be a much needed buffer between Goren and the CofD's, although I'm not sure how dirty Ross would let his shoes get a second time after the Tates thing. I'm not a Ross fan, but....
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Post by random on Jul 12, 2008 10:24:02 GMT -5
I think it was also pointed out in the thread for Betrayed that Kathy's throwaway line about leaks in Major Case might also be indicative that something is rotten in Denmark.
I'm not sure they would go down the "Chief of Detectives Gone Bad" plot path again so soon. I'm also not sure the Chief is one to pull off an intricate conspiracy. They seem to be writing him as a guy who doesn't have a lot of imagination. I think it's more that his attitude is "If Goren insists on swimming upstream, he shouldn't be surprised if he's washed away."
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Post by DonnaJo on Jul 12, 2008 10:29:55 GMT -5
Like Ross, it took the Chief a long time to get to where he is. He isn't a player like Frank Adair was. I think he's a dim bulb who got the promotion through hard work, incredible luck, and some help from a Rabbi.
He wouldn't risk it all to "off" Goren, Goren isn't a threat to him. But he wouldn't care if Goren was gone (although he should - the solve rate at MC would spiral downward).
Another interesting thought. How Jeff Goldblum will be perceived by the Chief. Now there's a whack job for you! ;D
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jul 12, 2008 11:11:26 GMT -5
Like Ross, it took the Chief a long time to get to where he is. He isn't a player like Frank Adair was. I think he's a dim bulb who got the promotion through hard work, incredible luck, and some help from a Rabbi. He wouldn't risk it all to "off" Goren, Goren isn't a threat to him. But he wouldn't care if Goren was gone (although he should - the solve rate at MC would spiral downward). Another interesting thought. How Jeff Goldblum will be perceived by the Chief. Now there's a whack job for you! ;D Adair had huge aspirations. He was quite the mover and shaker. The Chief of Ds hits me as a man who rose to his station not only through his police work but by knowing how to play the good ole boys game. He probably is quite happy being where he is. Not the Frank Adair ambitions. Goren simply being Goren has created some headaches for the upper boys. I don't see the Chief putting a hit out on him per se but merely allowing Goren the opportunity to be in harms way hoping destiny takes its course and he either gets killed in the line of duty or gets thrown off the force. Either way, the Chief of Ds is done with him and his hands are clean......sort of.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jul 12, 2008 11:18:08 GMT -5
I think it was also pointed out in the thread for Betrayed that Kathy's throwaway line about leaks in Major Case might also be indicative that something is rotten in Denmark. The fact that she was privy to info suggests that Major Case is a sieve. It wouldn't be a stretch to have an intentional leak about an undercover operation and the result would be a blown cover for the cop involved. Perhaps this is the reason Goren made his remark about the Chief of Ds wanting to see him killed.
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