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Post by random on Jun 10, 2008 23:41:21 GMT -5
The Internet Movie Database (imdb) lists Dean Winters as a guest star in 2 episodes - Purgatory and some version of the title of the next Goren and Eames (Betrayals? Betrayed?). IMDB is sometimes inaccurate, but if it's correct here, I guess we could be seeing a continuation of the fallout of this storyline.
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Post by deathroe on Jun 11, 2008 1:05:05 GMT -5
If she wrote it five years ago, 6 episodes in to season 5, it ought to be before the show starts. They've been partners for a year before "One" because she's had his back for eight years. In ancient texts, eight is the year of homecoming. Let's hope our heroes get some closure this year In related news, the very title "Betrayals" is making me shudder. Holy Hannah. Thanks for the heads up on Dean Winters!
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jun 11, 2008 3:45:18 GMT -5
As far as I am aware the first time the request letter was mentioned was in the episode In the Wee Small Hours. It was on the stand at the Hot Tub Harry's trial. And that was Season 5 and she had written the request 5 years before..... Hmm, so it could have been during that first season. Wonder what made her withdraw it? Since Goren is admittedly an acquired taste, perhaps Eames acquired the taste before the letter could be acted upon. She did state that she came to realize Goren was (not quoting here) ethical and an excellent detective. He would take some getting use to. I guess they gelled and she decided to withdraw her request and the partnership continued to grow. Now with all that has transpired that partnership is starting to fray and unravel. I hope it can be mended.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Jun 11, 2008 3:51:15 GMT -5
If she wrote it five years ago, 6 episodes in to season 5, it ought to be before the show starts. They've been partners for a year before "One" because she's had his back for eight years. In ancient texts, eight is the year of homecoming. Let's hope our heroes get some closure this year Didn't Eames make some remark to Goren when they were at the house interviewing the girl's parents and he promised that the perps would be caught? If memory is correct here (iffy) Eames had a little issue with Goren back then.....season 1/episode 1.
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susan1212
Detective
Yeah. I get that.
Posts: 444
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Post by susan1212 on Jun 11, 2008 6:42:32 GMT -5
Hi Annabelleleigh. Good to see you here! Yes, Annabelleleigh! Welcome! Wonderful to see you! What do you think of this epi? Word, Donna! I think most heroes are those who are "regular" guys trying to make it in a tough world, who take extraordinary steps to find truth and justice. In Robert's case, how many regular guys do you know who would risk their lives in a state mental institution, or a strip-joint run by a murderous drug dealer? He's not gone...he just took a few hits - literally and figuratively! He will come out of this stronger than ever. Even Superman had his kryptonite.
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Post by deathroe on Jun 11, 2008 7:19:42 GMT -5
Yes: "how can you promise something like that?" or similar words.
But you will find a contingent here arguing that Eames always has certain issues with Goren's methods, and there is plenty of evidence from the show to back this up. Personally, I just want them to be friends again. Their spat is preoccupying me way more than fiction should.
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Post by Patcat on Jun 11, 2008 8:43:19 GMT -5
Eames has never been in this job to advance. Remember her comment in JONES--"I'm not in this job to get noticed."
If you watch the show from the start, she's always challenged Goren. The crucial differences are that she challenges him without threatening him and he (usually) listens to her.
I don't think she wants a new partner. She wants her partner to respect her.
I've always suspected (and there's a fanfiction tradition thread) that Goren occasionally helps Lewis with his car business. This might be where some of his funds and that nice ride came from.
Patcat
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Post by annabelleleigh on Jun 11, 2008 9:53:49 GMT -5
Yes, Annabelleleigh! Welcome! Wonderful to see you! What do you think of this epi? Good to be here, S1212. I'm still digesting the episode. Once I view it again -- and if I have anything to say that hasn't already been well-expressed here -- I'll chime in. I'm also touched by what Donna wrote: But I'm thinking this may be a good thing -- both for Bobby and his admirers. And that's what I'm cogitating on now, as well as Patcat's meaty question: "Are all of Goren's wounds self-inflicted?" Some great observations here by all -- back to catching up with them. AL
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Post by Patcat on Jun 11, 2008 10:18:51 GMT -5
By the way, this episode repeats tonight at 11 pm (EST) on USA and again at 6:30 pm (EST).
Patcat
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Post by ragincajun on Jun 11, 2008 11:16:22 GMT -5
As to the lack of income......perhaps his mother had a life insurance policy...small but something to help tide him over a financial rough spot. There is also a paid suspension. If he has mental issues (which he has become known for) the department would or could put him on some kind of paid leave. Would it be short term disability. I am just throwing things out here. How would the suspension impact a short term disability leave? Things to ponder...... His situation can't be too bad. He still has his sweet ride, that vintage convertible he was driving. If he was desperate that would have been the first thing to sell. Trust me, you can go a long time without $$$ if you just pay the dire necessities, like food & maybe your electric bill. Been there, done that. I bet you he owes his landlord a few months back rent. My guess is that he borrowed against his 401K or IRA plan with the NYPD. He's still vested, and this would be considered an emergency reason to pull funds. After all these years, there would be a sizable amount. Also maybe he had Vacation pay he hadn't used. I don't know if NYPD lets that accumulate.
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Post by deathroe on Jun 11, 2008 12:55:53 GMT -5
But I'm thinking this may be a good thing -- both for Bobby and his admirers.
I think you might be right. At the very least, this representation seems honest. To me the question of whether this fits the show right now is best answered like this: ask yourself if there is ANYTHING on tv right now as honest as what Erbe and D'Onofrio have been doing. It might make me heartsick, but it is nothing short of wonderful.
On a side note of little consequence, I'm pretty sure the "I left two messages" clip in the preview is a different one than they actually used ... The delivery is completely different.
Death "Fighting the Tempation to Cut and Youtube That Scene, You Know The One I Mean" Roe
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Post by quietfireca on Jun 11, 2008 12:56:04 GMT -5
Eames has never been in this job to advance. Remember her comment in JONES--"I'm not in this job to get noticed." If you watch the show from the start, she's always challenged Goren. The crucial differences are that she challenges him without threatening him and he (usually) listens to her. I don't think she wants a new partner. She wants her partner to respect her. I've always suspected (and there's a fanfiction tradition thread) that Goren occasionally helps Lewis with his car business. This might be where some of his funds and that nice ride came from. Patcat Great observations Patcat,as always! (although I think Lewis would rather see Eames walk through his door!!) I agree totally about the respect thing and got so absorbed with the G/E exchange at the end of Smile (career related) that I neglected your point. The fact that he listens to her means he respects her - he's just doing a lousy job of showing it lately. I guess right now she feels taken for granted (guaranteed to annoy any self-respecting person) by him, so the thing she values most (respect) is absent. Is Eames well respected by the other detectives? Have we been given any info on that? Everyone certainly jumped when she was taken in Blindspot. (But then that has more to do with taking one of their own, than taking one of their own who was highly respected - dog with a bone mentality) Maybe she's respected by others for keeping Goren as a partner and insuring they won't have to partner with him!! Boy, that kind of respect would really tick her off. Which leads me to another though about respect, and lack thereof, for Goren. But that requires another post which might take me a while to compose....
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Post by Patcat on Jun 11, 2008 12:59:45 GMT -5
Ross clearly respects her, even at the start of his tenure as captain. While Deakins occasionally took a fatherly approach with her, it was also clear that he respected her. Other cops at crime scenes reapond to her with respect even when they're looking at Goren as if he has two heads. And her temporary partner in PURGATORY treated her well.
Patcat
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Post by DonnaJo on Jun 11, 2008 14:29:11 GMT -5
Eames' status as a senior partner in the prestigious Major Case division affords her respect. Couple that with her record & you have a woman who has climbed the ranks honestly & through hard work & dedication.
That's why when I see women who are placed at Major Case, like the very young Wheeler or the angry Falacci, it makes Eames postition look like less. And that is unfair & unrealistic. Even Ross admitted to Eames, "You worked hard to get to Major Case."
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Post by nancyt on Jun 11, 2008 16:49:34 GMT -5
Two issues: Goren's line, "I can't do that." That jarred me terribly for a moment, because if someone really is at the point where he can't get through a day without a drink, it's going to take a heck of a lot more than just getting his job back to sober him up. However, Goren didn't really show signs of serious alcoholism, and I now think he meant, "If I'm going to be undercover with a bar owner and a crooked cop who deal drugs, I can't be drinking root beer and expect them to accept me as one of them."
Re Eames' anger: I don't think she actually expected to be informed by Ross; she knows Ross is by the book, not to mention her boss. I think she was specifically angry at Goren, who she feels should have told her no matter what his orders were. That's the reason for the comment about the number of times she's lied for him: It's not a petulant demand for gratitude, it's a reminder that he has bent and/or broken the rules numerous times, she's always had his back when he did it, and what the hell has changed that he wouldn't inform her? Gotta say I'm rather shocked myself. Orders or no orders, he could have transmitted a low-profile message to her outside of work hours that would have reaffirmed their standing as partners through thick and thin.
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