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Post by outerbankschick on Dec 11, 2008 22:02:53 GMT -5
:wading in: When I saw these photos it reminded me of the time the other "love of my life", John Taylor (Duran Duran), shaved all of his gorgeous hair off and turned up looking like a skinhead. I just sat there and thought, honey, you're never going to be ugly so stop trying! LOL! Anywho, I agree the very, very short hair isn't Vincent's best look. But then, I've always thought that. During much of S5 he was sporting that really close cut and I wasn't so fond of that look. Will I get smacked if I say I'd like to wing him just once with a very, very soft Nerf ball for flattening those gorgeous curls? I love him anyway, but dang, do I love those curls! *SIGH*
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fuzzytweetie
Silver Shield Investigator
Bobby's version of the "hokey pokey"
Posts: 153
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Post by fuzzytweetie on Dec 12, 2008 0:25:11 GMT -5
I agree, the curls were great. I think a nerf ball or some velcro might be mighty entertaining.
Anyone ever think that maybe he got a little tired of the way Bobby was written? The writers are just as responsible for Bobby as Mr. D'Onofrio is. They put him on paper, he brings to "life" what the writers have created. It takes "two"............writer(s) and actor are all involved with the process of character realization.
caitlen, in order to support an opinion, ideas need to come from every avenue, not just on this board/thread.
DonnaJo, the board should be as open and honest as possible. That means that some of us will be a minority. Unfortunately, facts/emotion can be intertwined and, depending on the stance, may be difficult to separate.
I totally agree with you matherjunkie. How true that is of ANY board!!!
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Post by caitlen on Dec 13, 2008 4:35:24 GMT -5
I enjoy actors for their physical appearance. They have to have more than that, but that is part of it. If Vincent had a face like Abe Vigoda many of us would not be here, so why the pretense? Who are you referring to as a "pretense", again some do not have to look at a person`s physique to be able to sit through a film. To me that should not count if one truly is interested in the actors work. It actually comes across as "flighty and superficial" to think people are interested in actors for appearance, even to be part of the interest. Maybe that is the difference and opinions that cause so much conflict.
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Post by caitlen on Dec 13, 2008 4:38:29 GMT -5
caitlen, in order to support an opinion, ideas need to come from every avenue, not just on this board/thread. Meaning
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Post by diablodeblanco on Dec 13, 2008 9:47:30 GMT -5
I believe when a role is filled that role is given to the actor/actress based not only on their talent but also their physical appearance. That is one of the reasons VDO's physical change does impact his work. It's not a matter of simply aging. Hell, we all do that. Sean Connery has aged but the man still has it. He's not a pretty boy like his earlier Bond days but he has that something that gets better and better. He could still play a believable heart throb. VDO.......may have the acting chops but the physical side of the role would be lacking. JMO.
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Post by caitlen on Dec 13, 2008 9:59:09 GMT -5
Hiring an actor for a film would likely be both, but for me watching the actor, would be for acting, JMHO.
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Post by maherjunkie on Dec 13, 2008 10:07:54 GMT -5
I enjoy actors for their physical appearance. They have to have more than that, but that is part of it. If Vincent had a face like Abe Vigoda many of us would not be here, so why the pretense? Who are you referring to as a "pretense", again some do not have to look at a person`s physique to be able to sit through a film. To me that should not count if one truly is interested in the actors work. It actually comes across as "flighty and superficial" to think people are interested in actors for appearance, even to be part of the interest. Maybe that is the difference and opinions that cause so much conflict. Actually I was taking issue with FT's previous posts. Responding to someone's physicality is perfectly normal, both on screen and in real life;it is not "flighty and superficial", it is part of the human experience; if that's how you see my opinion then count me in at the shallow end of the pool because to look at things strictly cerebrally/ artistically would be boring , at least to me.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Dec 13, 2008 12:48:26 GMT -5
Hiring an actor for a film would likely be both, but for me watching the actor, would be for acting, JMHO. When I read your post I had to chuckle at the image that popped into my head. LOL The image of a very young and virile Marlon Brando ripping away his T-shirt in that memorable scene from A Streetcar Named Desire. So moving, so wonderful and sexual.... Now, image Marlon Brando decades later, a couple of hundred pounds heavier doing the same scene. Kinda loses something.......... That's what I meant when I said it takes talent and the physical "look" to make the magic happen!! <diablo closing her eyes and remembering>
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leanonme
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 166
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Post by leanonme on Dec 13, 2008 12:49:54 GMT -5
Anyone ever think that maybe he got a little tired of the way Bobby was written? The writers are just as responsible for Bobby as Mr. D'Onofrio is. They put him on paper, he brings to "life" what the writers have created. It takes "two"............writer(s) and actor are all involved with the process of character realization. Ok, I am new to CI, but I have done a lot of CI cramming in the past few months, before my life gets totally crazy in Jan. In one of my marathons this week, I was really struck by the difference in character. I can't remember the exact episodes, so forgive me, but I watched on early season episode in which VDO was a thrill to watch... and it was because of acting and writing. Basic fill in the story lines were filled with emotion, stammering, and movement. There was exciting, cunning dialogue to get a confession. Move ahead 3 seasons, and I was stunned. I saw a lethargic Bobby blandly mouthing to a criminal, "Come on, tell us the truth." WHAT? It barely seemed like the same show. Boring acting, boring lines. As someone who has gained and lost 100 pounds a couple of times, I can tell you weight matters. It matters because it is exhausting carrying around that weight. It matters because you are probably eating a lot of bad food, which makes your head fuzzy and makes you lethargic. It matters because when you are carrying that weight, it is always in the back of your mind somewhere. I'm a mom, and when I was 100 pounds overweight, I couldn't do my job well, it was hard to carry my kids, and I felt bad about it. I would imagine it is the same for a detective, or an actor. It has an impact on some level. It doesn't mean anything about someone's worth as a person. But when my job and relationships were impacted, I heard about it- mostly from the people who really loved me. They told me because they cared, and I saw it in their faces. And it was true! Even when I justified, or blamed them for being shallow, I was overweight and I was different. However, the basics of my personality were the same. I still loved to read and discuss things. I still had the same quirks about my personality. When I was SO depressed that I was nothing like my former self, my friends and family were ready to send me to treatment if I didn't pull it together. Back to the idea of not liking the way the character was, well, I'm sorry, but that WAS the character. People grow and change, people get overwhelmed by life ( and Bobby certainly has a reason to) but the basics of who we are stays the same. I got hooked on the early seasons. I am not a TV watcher. Bobby is allowed to change, and hurt, and even gain weight, but could he have a brain as well? When he gained weight and went through trauma, did he suddenly lose his stammer? For me, that is the disconnect. I would never had watched CI for 30 minutes if I had tuned in after season 4. It is just a different show,not because Bobby has changed, but because he seems to be gone.
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leanonme
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 166
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Post by leanonme on Dec 13, 2008 12:58:37 GMT -5
Hiring an actor for a film would likely be both, but for me watching the actor, would be for acting, JMHO. I think there is some truth in the fact that the punch is in the acting. However, an actor who gains a LOT of weight during the show becomes a different character. Diablo makes an excellent point about Brando... One more thing...dare I say it... I *shudder* to think of what would have happened if our dear KE had gained that amount of weight. I fear we wouldn't be discussing it, because she probably wouldn't have a job. So much for the acting...
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fuzzytweetie
Silver Shield Investigator
Bobby's version of the "hokey pokey"
Posts: 153
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Post by fuzzytweetie on Dec 13, 2008 15:54:14 GMT -5
Excellent points, leanonme. Diablo, the picture in my head of an older Brando kinda reminds me of the "Michelon Man".
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Post by DonnaJo on Dec 13, 2008 17:39:16 GMT -5
As someone who has gained and lost 100 pounds a couple of times, I can tell you weight matters. It matters because it is exhausting carrying around that weight. It matters because you are probably eating a lot of bad food, which makes your head fuzzy and makes you lethargic. It matters because when you are carrying that weight, it is always in the back of your mind somewhere. I'm a mom, and when I was 100 pounds overweight, I couldn't do my job well, it was hard to carry my kids, and I felt bad about it. I would imagine it is the same for a detective, or an actor. It has an impact on some level. It doesn't mean anything about someone's worth as a person. But when my job and relationships were impacted, I heard about it- mostly from the people who really loved me. They told me because they cared, and I saw it in their faces. And it was true! Even when I justified, or blamed them for being shallow, I was overweight and I was different. However, the basics of my personality were the same. I still loved to read and discuss things. I still had the same quirks about my personality. When I was SO depressed that I was nothing like my former self, my friends and family were ready to send me to treatment if I didn't pull it together. Back to the idea of not liking the way the character was, well, I'm sorry, but that WAS the character. People grow and change, people get overwhelmed by life ( and Bobby certainly has a reason to) but the basics of who we are stays the same. I got hooked on the early seasons. I am not a TV watcher. Bobby is allowed to change, and hurt, and even gain weight, but could he have a brain as well? When he gained weight and went through trauma, did he suddenly lose his stammer? For me, that is the disconnect. I would never had watched CI for 30 minutes if I had tuned in after season 4. It is just a different show,not because Bobby has changed, but because he seems to be gone. Thank you so much for sharing this info about yourself with us, leononme. It gave me tremendous insight into what has happened to the show. You also put into words exactly what is wrong with VDO and resultantly, the character he plays on LOCI. And he hasn't added 100 addition pounds, just 50 or so. It does feel sometimes like they are two different people, earlier seasons Bobby & the Bobby of the last few seasons. As you say, not merely in looks (which is a stark difference in itself) but in behavior. Goren is depressed and lethargic. He has a hard time bending, stooping & especially using his knees to get up & down. It's the extra weight for sure. That "dangerous grace" so aptly described by Dragonsback, is gone. He was excited and animated over the summer in "Vanishing Act." So there is hope.
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Post by diablodeblanco on Dec 13, 2008 21:10:36 GMT -5
Excellent points, leanonme. Diablo, the picture in my head of an older Brando kinda reminds me of the "Michelon Man". Unless you're into rubber, not a very stimulating fantasy.
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Post by Sirenna on Dec 14, 2008 11:22:24 GMT -5
done a lot of CI cramming in the past few months, before my life gets totally crazy in Jan. In one of my marathons this week, I was really struck by the difference in character. I can't remember the exact episodes, so forgive me, but I watched on early season episode in which VDO was a thrill to watch... and it was because of acting and writing. Basic fill in the story lines were filled with emotion, stammering, and movement. There was exciting, cunning dialogue to get a confession. Such a beautifully written post,Lenore. I share your views about what attracted me toshow in season1 and what apalled me about the show season four onward. The writing did have an impact on the characters (and the actors) . IN season four and five it was not my cup of tea at all. But the actors too were going through some life changes after season four and it all seemed to make my favourite show a different show. I know Vincent has commented in interviews how much more difficult it is forhim to lose weight and gain muscle after he hit his forties, even though he was never a stranger to a gym. (Even Arnold - The Terminator is showing the effects of age and good living.) His bulk has got to effect his acting - because he was always such a physical actor and Gorenwas such a physical detective - it was part of the sexy, cunning that Lenore remarked upon in her post above. His size has to affect how close-quarter scenes are blocked in CI. For me, it's not Goren's bulk, it's goren's expression. He seems tired and irritated. He's less humourous which made him likeable, and definately less sharp than earlier seasons. These things don't depend on size per se. They are influenced by good writing and different acting and directing choices.
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fuzzytweetie
Silver Shield Investigator
Bobby's version of the "hokey pokey"
Posts: 153
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Post by fuzzytweetie on Dec 14, 2008 16:32:52 GMT -5
Excellent points, leanonme. Diablo, the picture in my head of an older Brando kinda reminds me of the "Michelon Man". Unless you're into rubber, not a very stimulating fantasy. my fantasy life isn't very stimulating, now everyone knows!
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