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Post by quietfireca on Jul 1, 2009 15:01:30 GMT -5
when he held up the cuffs, but then that also reminded me of when he held up the car keys for Eames in "Siren Call." Anyone else think that? Although the visual was very similar, I saw those keys as a surrender gesture! (and there's a whole different tangent) but I can sure see why you'd connect the two.
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Irene
Rookie
"You blew your chance."
Posts: 48
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Post by Irene on Jul 1, 2009 15:16:13 GMT -5
heikimikeyWhat a lovely and heartfelt comment. when he held up the cuffs, but then that also reminded me of when he held up the car keys for Eames in "Siren Call." Anyone else think that? Although the visual was very similar, I saw those keys as a surrender gesture! (and there's a whole different tangent) but I can sure see why you'd connect the two. quietfirecaI just thought of something: in both cases, Goren is granting the concession to let Eames "drive." ; )
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Post by quietfireca on Jul 1, 2009 15:16:44 GMT -5
I loved the silent, concerned way he looked at her all through the episode, knowing that this whole case is going to be painful for her (and knowing exaxtly how that feels), but nevertheless stuck to the track. It reminded me very much on his approach in "Amends" . I too notice the calmness he showed, quietly observing, going out and getting information on his own. He was the rock in this episode. The opposite to his behaviour in Blind Spot when he felt he couldn't save her, and as you pointed out more like Amends. I thought he handled it better than Amends - lots more life experiences with her since then has taught him! Can you guys tell it's a holiday here? Happy Canada Day! lol! I'll go away for a bit now.....
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Post by outerbankschick on Jul 1, 2009 16:29:15 GMT -5
LOL, Suzanne. I love it when Bobby struts! He's got gorgeous plumage. It fans out bigger and brighter than anyone else's, too!
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Post by outerbankschick on Jul 1, 2009 16:38:25 GMT -5
Boz the lady's man. . .blech! Hey OBC, I've been musing over the title Lady's Man and you've poked the right spot... Something I've learned on this board is that typically the episode title meaning resounds throughout. I found several definitions of Lady's Man (and Ladies' Man) online yesterday. They're almost the same: - a man who enjoys spending time and flirting with women
- A man who enjoys and attracts the company of women
In this episode we have the traditional lady's man: Boz The freakish lady's man who many have noted puts a new slant on Lady's Man: Mulrooney Any others? so what happens if I suggest that Goren is Eames'? !!!!!!!!!!!!!I'm ducking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OBC, are you going to jump in about the spelling? Okay, now that I'm home from work and have time to type more than one word. . . Ladies' man, as it is generally spelled, suggests plurality. He loves the ladies, he seeks them out, attracts them to himself, flirts with them, as the definitions above point out. Denoting the title as Lady's Man (singular possessive) could suggest that there is one particular lady that this man cares about, or is fond of. To expand on Suzanne's question, the Lady in question would be Alex and the man, of course, would be Bobby. And one doesn't have to ship to see the connection. The whole episode was a study of their relationship and it could be taken both ways. However, even without the "shipping", Bobby is definitely Alex's man in many ways. They have a closer relationship than they used to and I also think that just because we don't "see" things happening, doesn't mean they don't. They are partners and friends. They may share a margarita after work, or a relaxed dinner. They most likely eat lunch together when they are at work. It doesn't mean that Bobby is "one of the family" and invited to Alex's family "stuff" - summer cookouts and such - but I would contend that the two of them may see one another outside of work more than we might think. So there's my take on the title. How'd I do, Suzanne?
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Post by quietfireca on Jul 1, 2009 17:51:08 GMT -5
Denoting the title as Lady's Man (singular possessive) could suggest that there is one particular lady that this man cares about, or is fond of. To expand on Suzanne's question, the Lady in question would be Alex and the man, of course, would be Bobby. And one doesn't have to ship to see the connection. The whole episode was a study of their relationship and it could be taken both ways. However, even without the "shipping", Bobby is definitely Alex's man in many ways. So there's my take on the title. How'd I do, Suzanne? lol! Really well! I didn't expect you to expand on Goren and Eames so much, because hints of shipping routinely incur execution on this board and I know you're a fence-sitter! So bravo to you, brave woman! So how does that singularity fare with other examples in the episode? And are there other examples besides Boz and Kevin?
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Post by DonnaJo on Jul 2, 2009 10:56:58 GMT -5
IMO, the title spelling "Lady's Man" was used by the writers to suggest that Kevin was both a Lady and a Man. I honestly don't see more than that. I know some believe that Eames was lying to Bobby about sleeping with Mulrooney because she gave the "tell" of looking away & averting her eyes. I believe that her inability to look Bobby in the face was because she was admitting that she would have slept with Mulrooney if events hadn't interfered. Admitting that she was weak & vulnerable enough to sleep with someone (like him) so soon after Joe's death was embarrassing enough for someone so in control of her emotions as Eames' tries to be. And while I'm offering up my opinion, I think it was vital for Goren's investigation and handle on Mulrooney's motives to establish if the Eames/Mulrooney relationship had ever been sexual. That's why he bugged her for an answer, not because he was jealous or nosey.
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Post by Patcat on Jul 2, 2009 12:58:40 GMT -5
I'm with you, DonnaJo, on both Eames' reaction to Bobby's question and his need to ask it.
I wonder if bourbon was Eames' choice of comfort liquor? Back when I drank more than I do now (very rarely, and only one or two drinks with friends), I used to pound down Canadian whiskey because it was relatively inexpensive and mixed well with Coke or Seven-Up. I could get in an altered state pretty quickly. I wonder if Eames was using bourbon as a sedative to get through the period after Joe's death. Perhaps it was his drink of choice.
Patcat
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Post by DonnaJo on Jul 2, 2009 13:45:18 GMT -5
Interesting take on the bourbon, Patcat. At Eames' weight, after two she would be feeling no pain. Poor kid.
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Post by outerbankschick on Jul 2, 2009 15:21:15 GMT -5
Oh, I don't mean that the writer's actually intended it to be so. . . that was just another take on the title from a different POV.
I do not believe Alex was lying either. I think she was totally embarrassed to have to answer the question with the whole "No, but I would have. . ." comment for the reasons already listed above. And I think Bobby needed an answer because if she had slept with Kevin, that would have factored into Kevin's behavior and Bobby's handling of the case.
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Post by quietfireca on Jul 2, 2009 19:15:31 GMT -5
I do not believe Alex was lying either. I think she was totally embarrassed to have to answer the question with the whole "No, but I would have. . ." comment for the reasons already listed above. And I think Bobby needed an answer because if she had slept with Kevin, that would have factored into Kevin's behavior and Bobby's handling of the case. I'd drop my gaze from those probing eyes of his, too! I think she told the truth, although body language would indicate otherwise. There is no reason to lie, it was 10 years ago! Ancient history. Normally these two lock gazes all the time. *All* the time, with a secret language all their own (yes, Irene, there is an echo in here!), so the fact that she drops her gaze is certainly.....interesting.
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Post by Moonbeam on Jul 2, 2009 19:53:36 GMT -5
I think she was surprised, angry and hurt by his question, and why not? Male counterpart is asking about his partner's past sexual relationship(s). Yet, she's been with him long enough to know he knows little about personal boundries.
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Irene
Rookie
"You blew your chance."
Posts: 48
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Post by Irene on Jul 3, 2009 3:32:21 GMT -5
Well, I've stated my opinion and, welcoming all others, I present further evidence that the writers want us to consider that Eames lied:
Speaking of echoes, there is an oft-used writer's device (esp. common in film & TV) that if a scene ends with a question hanging over it, (e.g. what did he/she mean by that? or where was he/she really?), that the answer can be found immediately following the scene: via the visual transition into the next scene, the theme at the outset of the next scene, and/or in the first line or two of the next scene, even if the next scene is about something else (different location, different characters, new topic, etc.). So in effect, the second scene contains an "echo" of the preceding scene.
After Eames avoids answering Goren's big question the FIRST time (when Ross interrupts them), we cut to Goren and Eames interrogating Craig. Goren's all hyper and aggressive; he leans into Craig. Goren: So-- you have several women...or just the one? Eames is slouched over, looking rather depressed. She glumly fondles her pen. Eames: We understand you had to lie in front of your wife.
I interpret Eames' demeanor and statement that she's ashamed she had to "lie" to her significant other. I'm speaking of the lie of omission, of course. (If you want to take this type of reading further, you could infer that Goren in his aggression is actually grilling Eames to find out if there was just this "one", or are there others that are going to come up?)
Now here's the interesting part. Craig basically confesses to being an adulterer, but technically he didn't do the dirty with the red head-- he doesn't remember what happened. Ergo, one could argue that Eames and Mulrooney spent the night at the weekend rental, but for one reason or another (she talked all night, or they were about to "do it" but then she cried about Joe, whatever), they didn't actually fornicate. Therefore Eames in theory would not be lying.
I remain however, convinced that there was something more than "wanting" Mulrooney or playing tonsil hockey with him that she feels this icky/guilty about. (Doesn't the new Catholicism allow for heterosexual ex-marital lusting-- as long as you don't act on it?) And, in following the scene comparison as above, Craig makes a point of looking directly into Goren's eyes when he says "Fact is... I never got lucky." Which is the TRUTH. He never got lucky. Complete contrast to the way Eames answers the question when she answers it.
Also, in her initial dodge of the question, I find it utterly telling that Eames speaks in third person when she explains "uh--a time in a person's life when... they need to talk about things..?" This is an example of "distancing" or dissociation, a subconscious response to an anxious situation that one can't currently address. Typically utilized when one wants to avoid taking responsibility or facing the truth of something. A classic symptom of denial.
Some may scoff and question whether this depth of analysis has validity. In studying Film Theory, we learn to delve a lot deeper into the frame than this! Some schools of thought would have us examining the personal history of the writer of the episode to uncover additional meanings but I don't have the energy to go there.
Isn't this fun? Just more examples of how the writers deftly use ambiguity to entertain us on multiple levels.
P.S. After all that, Moonbeam, your assessment may be right on.
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Post by caitlen on Jul 3, 2009 3:49:25 GMT -5
Wow, great read Irene
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Post by ypomoni on Jul 3, 2009 9:06:25 GMT -5
I really hope Eames wasn't lying to Goren. A lot of TV cop series base a lot of attention on the body language of the "suspect". Eames puts her hand on her face while talking to Goren - this usually indicates someone is not sure of how much they should reveal. She also does not look directly at him. Instead she looks down and to her right. This is usually a sign of internal dialogue, again indicating that she is not comfortable revealing things about the subject. Looking to the right (if you are right-handed) is usually a sign that you are telling the truth. To summarise, Eames appears to be embarrassed, but not dishonest. I realise that I may be going overboard here, and that the above are not exactly a perfect indication of whether someone is being truthful or not. Like I mentioned earlier, they use this kind of technique in many cop series' - that does not mean that it was meant to imply something here. I especially liked her reaction to Bobby's comment about being concerned. "For ME?" By the look on her face, it seemed that it was the first time during this episode that she figured out Bobby wasn't just trying to catch a killer no matter what, but he was in fact trying to do his best to make sure she too was alright.
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