3:13 - "Pas de Deux" 2004-02-15

[janetcatbird]

Well, not the greatest episode, but still solid. You think they were doing some foreshadowing to make us sit up and take notice? Hmm, how long will it be before Elizabeth/Nicole returns? Should we start placing bets?

What is it with dancing in the past few episodes? And sheltered, confined women bursting out of their shells? I certainly don't mean to belittle it, but there's an interesting parallell between "Pas de Deux" and "Unrequited".

But for now I shall keep my post brief, and let the more insightful minds go to. Later all.

Catbird

[trisha]

So, Nicole gets off. Unbelievable.

Guess we'll have to see the crazy B***h again, and boy did the stress show on Goren when Carver implied that her evasion of justice was the reason Goren was hard on Marcy as their unwitting next victim.

He even seemed to have some darker than usual circles under his eyes in a later scene.

You all know that I'm not fond of POI, so I won't belabor on it, but the next time we see her, the story better be f-ing spectacular or just plain over.

My favorite lines are both Eames'. After Goren removes the tag from the case she worries may be a bomb, "It's so nice to be back." and of coarse, "You were watching the wrong detective."

Damn, I love it when she gets the last line! I'm so happy with the way Eames has been presented lately. Thank you, writers!

[Lilee]

I liked her line about where the guy's floors were getting laid. And, of course, echoed her feelings that Nichole's 'not guilty' verdict being due to hubby's money, "Not good enough".

I try to just sit back and enjoy first viewing so can't remember everything I liked but I got a couple chuckles, like in the bathroom when they found the suitcase. Eames was priceless!! So glad to have her back!! Erbe has her down beautifully. I wonder if there are seperate writers for each characters.

Had to rewind immediately to see when Eames planted the tablets. Anyone else have ideas when/how she did it, or if we even got to see it??

I appreciated the time taken to show how the bad guy, (I'm tired) picked his next 'partner', put her in a couple situations to see if she was wuss enough, vulnerable enough, to go along. I had a short convo with Observer on the con-text thread on the other board about this kind of 'feeling out' and manipulating of potential victims and this illustrated it nicely.

'Nuff for now. Except to say, since I may not have said it yet today: SOOOOOO glad to be here with you all!! ;D

[Metella]

solid episode, umhum. then why are the 1st 3 post all mentioning 2 lines in the whole story - N/E getting off & the implications.

I'll tell you, since I asked. Because I was right, they fell in love with the idea of her and haven't really paid attention to the realism of it - it isn't. They created her & are enamored of her & can't see that she doesn't measure up for this job.

THIS IS THE ONLY TIME IN CI HISTORY I WAS PULLED OUT OF AN EPISODE ..... and I was wondering and watching "Goren" for ticks and signs instead of engaging in the story line.

Now, I'm downing some wine - heading for reading and sleep and will comment on the god damn REAL EPISODE soon. Assholes.

[Metella]

P.S.ing - Hey Lil'E I was supposed to be the third post; you slithered in a post while I was ranting about ..... of course, I'm sure my rant was most expected by those who know me. Who wants to disappoint, eh?

Yes, the laid comment was so well done; and in such a way that kiddies would not really get it and adults would - Ok - Assholes only for the N/E love-f***ing-fest; but not for the dialog in this episode. I just better go now, I'm swearing enough to draw sailors right to my door!

[trisha]

Sailors and site admins. Careful, girl!

Okay, I went back to count the damn tablets and there were only 13 that I could see when Goren first dumped the bottle on the table. Maybe it's just that my vcr is a piece of crap, though.

Anyway, I really did like this episode. I was curious about the tea drinking man who asked for the bathroom key *a lot*, but I was sure they were having sex. I guess I just can't imagine a woman who is having an affair worthy of leaving her husband and child that didn't involve mad, passionate sex.

Margie was easily manipulated, though, and I have met a few women like her who were manipulated into a stupid relationship with a worthless a-hole when she really did love her husband. It comes with an identity crisis.

Margie got lost in suburbia, and the roles she plays and place she lives became the only identity she could see anymore. Anything was better than that.

Painting herself with no face I can see easily, but her child? Wow. That woman was in serious need of counseling. I think she knew it, too. That's why she went to all those classes without telling her husband, and why she ignored her parking tickets. She was begging to be caught. She was begging to be noticed as a HUMAN and an individual, not just another mommy, or wife, or school teacher. She made a common error, though. She decided to let yet another person tell her who she is.

[janetcatbird]

Oh yeah, Margie (thank you for the name!) needed help, poor woman. And her husband didn't even seem like a jerk, just a guy who didn't realize what was going on. But I'm gonna tack up some comments I posted at another board, so if they're repetitive for other dual citizens I'm sorry:

One major problem with the end--even if it was Eames instead of Goren's, isn't planting evidence HIGHLY illegal? Seems to me any halfway decent lawyer would have a field day with that. ALthough that was a clever little reversal: "That's cause you were watching the wrong detective!" Or would you argue that since it wouldn't be used to implicate the guy at trial, it didn't count?

Actually, I think if the evidence was used to get a confession, but not at trial to indicate guilt, a sympathetic judge might let it slide. Especially because they weren't getting whats-his-face's confession, but the Margie's. As an accomplice, it's nothing new for cops to turn one against the other with lies about being sold out or anything.


We missed yet another chance for Sheridan to show off his moves and for Goren to twirl Eames around! (Please don't think I'm a relationshipper, far from it. I just want the friendship and teasing to become a little more two-way and not just Eames' sarcasm.) Although maybe the height difference would be a little awkward--trust me, my parents shipped me to Junior Cotillion when I was 12 and having danced with gys half a foot taller than me I can sympathize. It's most amusing when a preteen with no coordination is supposed to take the lead, the girls had to take charge or we would have become bumper cars. But I'm babbling.

My biggest problem with this episode: the bomb at the beginning. Did we really need to see the stuff coming out of the guy's back, ick! Please don't let CI go to shock-grossouts over story, ugh!

This was the most worked up we've seen Goren get with a suspect. Seems like in the last few episodes he was simply talking, it's been a while since he actually manhandled a criminal. But why didn't the lawyer do something? Although if Eames was going to slip the stuff in the pocket, Goren probably wanted to be as loud and ostentatious as possible to attract attention.

Unfortunately no access to a tape, I'll try and catch the USA rerun. But what cracked me up was GOren's look of "you gotta be kiddin' me!" when the Little Woman (ha! say that to Eames' face and see what happens!)mentioned the kid's room. I guess that surprised him, but having given birth she may feel more comfortable pulling off lines like that.

<OK, original thoughts>:
About E/N--it is possible that someone of her background might respond in a similar way initially, with the manipulation and killings of men. BUt her obsession with Goren seems pretty improbable. Well, it makes good drama, but not necessarily realism. But it is fun to watch them mess with each other. (I liked Carver's tactful point about Margie, and Eames' loyal but cautious partnership--maybe after Croyden everyone's checking themselves.)

Unfortunately like the dupe I am I got all excited--as the writers wanted us to be. (Maybe they're trying to make up for the dearth of new episodes by juicing up the ones we do see?) But then, since we haven't seen much of Goren's personal life this season maybe they're cooking up a humdinger. We've had Mommy, Daddy, think that mysterious older brother is up next? Pretty soon she'll run out of family and head for old girlfriends, Louis, Eames, whatever. But as long as she's obsessed like that she'll keep doing stuff, and you know eventually they'll get her just for closure. It really is a Holmes-Moriarty approach, which doesn't gel for most L&O franchises but with the actors in this one it sure keeps the conversations lively.

Ha! So much for brief. But I'll shut up now, later all.

Catbird

[trisha]

Oh please, post away. You can be sure it will be new to Metella and I

Okay, now onto the rest of your post!

"Highly illegal"? To put vitamin C in a suspects pocket and lead him to believe it's something else? If Goren can tell a suspect she has HIV to get her to turn on her boyfriend and confess, Eames can certainly put some vitamins in a guys pocket and let him and his accomplice think it's something else, right? That wasn't evidence tampering. It was a lie, and there is no law that says the cops can't lie.

You thought the explosion in the beginning was too gross? All I remember are the feathers from his parka blowing out the back of him and a black hole. Not much blood at all. The grossest thing I think this show has done were the twisted/broken fingers of the Chinese girl in Blink. Yikes! That made me squirm. Goren sniffing cheese grater face in Graansha was gross, too.

I agree that it has been a while since we have seen Goren get physical with a suspect. It seems to me that it's the type of crime and criminal he is dealing with that gives him enough perosnoal reason to do so. Donny manipulated and attempted to murder an innocent girl, and remember, that "really pisses [him] off." I agree that Donny's lawyer would have put a quick end to it, but we have gone over how most of the confessions we see on CI would have been prevented by a real lawyer.

I know what you mean about Nicole going after Goren. I agree that she is no match for him. I see the mirror image that Elena brought up on previous discussions, but I really have to agree with Defix in that Nicole's pathology is one of an emotional machoist. She can't stand the fact that Bobby saw that sparkling little girl she used to be, that bright, charming, and beautiful girl that she has done so much to destroy. He called her on it, and he found out her deepest secret. Maybe it was because deep down inside she wanted him to. What we do know is that HE is the harpoon in her side. She can't move on until she destroys him, even though in attempting to do so she may destroy herself.

I know writers love storylines that get personal, like a death of a regular character, or someone close to them. They spawn tons of arcs, and that is fun to work with. I hope, however, that they stay away from having Nicole go after Eames, Goren's brother, or Lewis. Soap gets in my eyes.

[janetcatbird]

Oh, those were feathers? My goof, I thought they were...you get the idea. I wasn't wearing my glasses, oops.

I think I revised my assumption about how cops can often turn one suspect on another, so I get the idea that it was, if sneaky, legit.

I was being a bit sarcastic about Eames and Lewis as targets, but you're right, that would NOT be a good storyline. If she ever did that then it'd mean that the story writers are desperate. My guess is that except for her sister's baby, the only times we'll get personal with Eames would be if something happened to her Dad. (If they really wanted to go soapy then they'd have one of her Dad's old cases out for revenge, but I highly doubt it.)

Yes, I love sotrylines that continue, and I like insight on the characters, but I also like the mothership's approach. A comment here, a casual phone call there, so when you do hear something it's worth noticing--you watch for ten years hoping to find out more about Lenny or McCoy (who, despite his unpleasant nature, is still an interesting character).

Yes, Bobby does seem to be rather chivalrous, even towards the women who haven't been manipulated or made victims. (I was surprised that they let the woman off so easy in "But Not Forgotten".) Even without his comment that guys warping young girls "pisses him off" you could tell he was very protective. Maybe that's because of the way his Dad treated his Mom?

It was nice that he actually asked her "Are you OK" after the starter-pistol incident. It seems a little unusual for him to vocalize, normally he gives her a quick look, see's she's in good shape, and goes on. Even in "Homo Homini Lupus" when she pulled the trigger he said nothing. But in this one the stress was bleeding off a little bit--even in the precinct. Normally she's the one keeping an eye on him. He doesn't try to rescue Eames because she doesn't need it, she's a cop and he treats her like one. But if anybody did mess with her--just get out of the way.

Hee hee, maybe my March Madness self should come up with a bracket for Elizabeth/Nicole's reappearance. Which episode, what we're gonna find out about Bobby and family, etc. Unfortunately we can't really get an online pool, but bragging rights would kick in. I will take suggestions for point spreads, topics to debate, etc. OK, I've blathered enough. Lunchtime!

Catbird

[NikkiGreen]

Good, solid episode. Bobby (as Alex called him in Deakins office ) sure was 'charming' with Marjorie in the dance studio.

That was certainly an interesting variation of the Goren interrogation room dance! ;D Had me LOL!

The *planting* of the Vitamin C pills in Donny's pocket...that was just a lie to make Marjorie see the light of day. I don't see how that would even a point of contension (sp?).

I'll bet we see E/N during the May sweeps period.

ETA: I got Marjorie's name wrong (twice). What can I say, I fell asleep during the second viewing.

[Metella]

notice how quick Eames just knew that the girl Goren had danced with, he danced with because he was scoping her out? She is very perceptive.

Eames' reaction at almost shooting the guy was very well done, she was sharp, alert, nearly shooting him and very keyed up - I think she was keyed up in equal amounts about perhaps being shot - and/or - perhaps the guy had a detonator in that pocket & was getting ready to blow it with Goren possibly near the bomb. All in all, her heart must have been racing - and for her to make the right decision was excellent work.

A great deal of showing of the "detective" work - down to all the interviews for info and the stickies poking out of Goren's books - if anyone asks again, he just seems to know everything - then why is he marking all the relevant stuff to go back and recheck or reference? Because he knows how to look up stuff quickly.

Nice balance of Carver and Deakins.

[janetcatbird]

But of course, Eames would be a bit, shall we say, on edge. I though that this side of it--the stress that carried over--was much more realistic than "Homo Homini Lupus" when she actually killed the guy. Kudos to Erbe for (to my mind) an accurate, realistic performance. Lord knows I wouldn't be good for it.

And once and for all, I get it that the pills were not a problem! Sorry, don't read that as edgy. I was surprised when GOren actually put something in his mouth, I just couldn't hear what he said it was. (SHoot, my family really pushes the vitamins so I know there's nothing deadly in Vitamin C, it gets jammed down my throat every cold and flu season.

SLightly off-topic (but important) on the subject of supplements. SInce we seem to have so many girls on this board, get your calcium! A family member works for a drug company and she found research that says you need to get your calcium in early. Ideally you drink your milk as a child and teen, because that period, extending into your twenties, is when you're growing and your bones will absorb the most calcium. BY the time you get into your fifties the damage control is limited, because it won't take as much in. So, being in my late teens I am taking my Calcium +D supplements and getting it while I can. This is what happens when youhave a lab rat in the family, I'm just passing on the info.

OK, back to show. Yes, it was nice to actually see Carver and Deakins in this, if it can just be a regular thing I'll be happy.

It was perceptive of Eames--I think at first she was expecting Goren to dance with her to set up a cover, but when she saw who she was going for she figured it out. Besides, with her being able to watch a bit aways she could get a sense of size, demeanor, etc. What was it she said: "Surveillance is my strong suit." At least we got that quick flash to show she was watching and taking it in. Goren seemed a bit awkward, like the goofy guy who means well but seems a bit shy. But that was clever, he was trying to put her at ease (seeing this 6'3 giant in your face would have startled most people). Although you wonder how it would have gone if he'd fallen into the mode fo her guy: suave, smooth, take-charge, confident. Hmm, interesting.

This is yet again that Goren intimidates a suspect by a display of I'm-manlier-than-you: notice how he put whats-his face in the girl's position in the Interrogation Rhumba. And that sign of turf marking--sitting backwards in the chair, shoving stuff out of the way, etc. (Actually what just sprang to mind was the "Cell Block Tango" which has the best refrain I've ever heard.) You wonder how hard Deakins was snickering from the other side of the mirror now that the Goren show was back in town.

[trisha]

Thanks for the advice, but where were you 10 years ago? Oh yeah, grammar school

I also thought Eames was tops in this episode. It seems our pleas for more Eames have been heard by tptb.

I am one of the few here who actually haven't seen Naked Tango, so forgive my ignorance on the comparisons, but that didn't stop me from loving the way Goren forced Donnie to follow his lead like a puppet, while describing the way Donnie controlled Margie.

[janetcatbird]

Oh Ppptttppp. (Hee hee, don't worry, I'm used to ribbing.) Of course you should always keep your calcium levels adequate for general maintenance, it's just those are the times when it's really absorbed.

Don't worry, I haven't seen "Naked Tango" either, I've mentioned elsewhere how I have not seen much of D'Onofrio's work. Am I to assume there are certain, ahem, dramatically revealing sequences? No, what I remembered was what Sam on "Wishbone" referred to as "getting a black belt in ballroom." Step-ow! side-"Other way!"-touch-"Just follow me!" Repeat endlessly, and if you're stuck with an exceptionally obnoxious 12 year old boy it can be sheer torture.

Hmm, that is a thought about the powers that be. Of course the Law & Order writers would probably feel a bit above following the fan's advice, but I think a couple have mentioned they look on sites like this out of curiosity and amusement. WHat was it Samantha Buck said: "He takes one thing off the wall and they start analyzing it." So somebody must get a good laugh out of us. And if it brings to mind--you know, we could use a bit more of the others--so much the better.

[Lilee]

I didn't have time to read all posts, yet, but wanted to comment on trisha's pointing out the parking tickets. Good catch. I see that it not only gave the cops information, but also gave us more insight into Margie's personality. I hadn't thought of her behaviors as begging to be caught, but of course they are.