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Post by darmok on Mar 1, 2004 22:40:47 GMT -5
Alright, Trisha, I'll start this. I love this episode. It's in the running with "Phantom" as my favorite episode.
I love the line, "You mean imply. The listener infers." Eames response is quick, "And detectives speculate." Kenny is very careful to say "imply" later in the episode.
The beginning is very interesting. After examining the situation, Goren keeps his back to the victim in the tub while talking to Eames even though his back is also turned towards her. As much as he seems to like (or at least not mind) examining dead bodies, he doesn't seem to be able to look at her. I don't know if it's because she's "motherly."
The ending is classic. I feel so bad for Goren because he feels so bad for making a mistake. I don't think he necessarily feels sorry for the father, but now Julie has no chance of getting off easy. The way his face is very close to the camera so that you see his agony is very well done.
I think this is a very well done episode, and everything fits together nicely.
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Post by trisha on Mar 2, 2004 10:20:16 GMT -5
I also don't think he felt bad for the father. He was upset about pushing Julie into doing something she was not ready for. He wanted to help Julie by giving her the chance to confront her father, and even bring him to literal justice, but the pain was too new. Now she has not only the legal consequences to face for killing both her parents, but the psychological consequences as well. But even as pained as he seemed, this horrible incident didn't stop him from continuing his whale hunt.
He *knows* that anger. He should have seen it coming, but he didn't. I still believe this comes from never confronting his own father. He has a pathological need to expose and confront bad fathers, and this time it came back to bite him, but it didn't stop him from scolding Spencer later in Cold Comfort, or the father in Cherry Red. He didn't stop until Nicole Wallace made him stop.
But has he learned his lesson? He came awfully close to raging against McVee in FPS.
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Post by darmok on Mar 2, 2004 22:30:28 GMT -5
Yes, I think he's learned. He was able to catch himself, without Eames' help in FPS. That doesn't mean he still won't have issues with "deadbeat dads" and the like, but I think he'll keep his emotions more in check.
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coth
Silver Shield Investigator
Posts: 78
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Post by coth on Mar 3, 2004 1:17:49 GMT -5
Darmok, It seems you suffered from the same quotation marks/capital D that I did.
This was an episode that got me more interested in seeing other LOCI episodes, and made me see the difference between this and other series.
I may be the only person interested in this, but as trivia, and my interest in where writers get story and dialogue ideas I thought this was at least slightly interesting. In a Nero Wolfe novel (Wolfe was based on Sherlock Holmes' older brother, Mycroft), Wolfe tore out pages of a Websters Unabridged Dictionary and threw them into a fire because the authors had said that "infer" and "imply" could be used interchangeably. Other than the daily e-mails I receive from Rene Balcer, Vincent D'Onofrio and Dick Wolf; I have no idea if they read this book or if it was just a way of educating the general public. As minor as it is to the overall story, and the fact that it was mentioned just made more aware of the intelligence of this series.
I hate to admit this but I had forgotten about Goren's anguish at the end of this episode. This is only my second viewing but I think it was a precursor to some of Goren's later emotions. I think you are correct, he was not dismayed as much at the father's death as he was with his pushing Julie into something she was not prepared for.
For me another thing that this episode made clear was the fact that known actors are harder to believe in pivotal roles. A lot of newer viewers probably did not know Hal Linden. He did a great job, and I think he is a good actor, but it was harder for me to suspend my disbelief with him than it might have been for an actor I did not know. I think this is a great reason to not have "known actors" in the show. I do not mean by that no one that has been in another show should have a chance, but people well known can sometimes be a distraction. This is not, (as much as I like it), Columbo or Murder She Wrote.
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Post by sarahlee on Sept 12, 2006 12:34:48 GMT -5
Did anyone notice Goren playing aroung with the camera at "Cafe Brasilia"? He snapped a pic of himself with Eames and one with the hostess, and then slipped them into his pocket...why? Did I miss something? Or am I watching too many re-runs?
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Post by spaniard on Sept 12, 2006 12:41:01 GMT -5
I watched this episode the other day and can you believe I don´t remember? I think he didn´t take one of the hostess, took one of something that was on the counter in front of her. I can take a look tonight and tell you tomorrow (I'm supposedly working right now).
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Post by spankypup on Sept 12, 2006 13:11:54 GMT -5
Goren took a picture of himself & Eames, then a picture of Kenneth's reservation , which he later showed to Julie.
And Saralee..there is no such thing as too many re-runs ;D
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Post by diablodeblanco on Sept 12, 2006 16:10:19 GMT -5
I could be mistaken but I believe he took a picture of eames, one of himself with the hostess and a picture of the reservation book.
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vdofan1
Silver Shield Investigator
Made ya look....
Posts: 178
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Post by vdofan1 on Sept 12, 2006 16:17:05 GMT -5
But the real questions are, why did Goren take the pictures of Eames and the hostess and what did he do with the them? Mystery wrapped within mystery....
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Post by spaniard on Sept 12, 2006 17:20:43 GMT -5
ohhh, you don't want THE answer, you want YOUR answer. ;D So, what´s the answer that you want?
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Post by Cassie on Sept 12, 2006 17:42:38 GMT -5
But the real questions are, why did Goren take the pictures of Eames and the hostess and what did he do with the them? Since Goren had plans to stop at Carmel Ridge after work, he had the picture taken for his mom. She is always asking him about Eames
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vdofan1
Silver Shield Investigator
Made ya look....
Posts: 178
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Post by vdofan1 on Sept 12, 2006 18:36:28 GMT -5
ohhh, you don't want THE answer, you want YOUR answer. ;D So, what´s the answer that you want? LOL!!! I don't really want one. I like the mystery. I'll leave it to the fan-fic 'shippers to figure it out. ;D
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Post by sarahlee on Sept 12, 2006 21:51:40 GMT -5
Somebody give me an answer!! This is really bugging me. I'll go with the suggestion that Goren took a picture of the reservation book, but why did he take a picture of himself and Eames, and keep it? You see I can get hung up on annoying details, so have pity on poor manic me.
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Post by spaniard on Sept 13, 2006 4:08:02 GMT -5
Well, Goren flying like a mosquito acting strange with a camera doesn't surprise me, remember how he moved at the acting school or the stables with the loose knot, he does these things while Eames tries to talk normal with a witness. Sometimes they look like Mom and little Bobby at the park. And why does he keep it? I would keep it, I wouldn't have a picture of me going around where strangers can see it, especially one taken like that, I wouldn't like to know that it is out there. I would do it for vanity, maybe he does it for security. Or maybe just for the heck of it, I have tons of pictures of my friends. I think it is just the automatic reaction of the actor, I do that with everything. My coat is a mystery box when I come home. So...turn your shipper alarm off, woman!
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Post by sarahlee on Sept 13, 2006 11:24:39 GMT -5
I'll try to calm down. I need some new CI.
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